* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [00:00:01]
          THE TIME IS NOW 6:00 PM 
          [ Call to Order ]
OUR REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING FOR OCTOBER 15TH, 2024 IS NOW IN SESSION. 
          FIRST ON THE AGENDA IS MAYOR PRO TEMP WESTBROOK WILL LEAD US WITH THE OPENING PRAYER AND THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAGS OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE STATE OF TEXAS. 
          PLEASE RISE, LET US TAKE A MOMENT TO PAUSE AND REFLECT AS WE GATHER HERE TODAY. 
          WE ASK FOR WISDOM, CLARITY, AND UNDERSTANDING IN THE DECISIONS THAT WILL SHAPE OUR COMMUNITY, MAY WE BE GUIDED BY A SPIRIT OF FAIRNESS AND COMPASSION, ALWAYS MINDFUL OF THE DIVERSE NEEDS AND VOICES OF THOSE WE SERVE. 
          HELP US TO APPROACH OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH RESPECT FOR ONE ANOTHER AND A SHARED COMMITMENT TO THE COMMON GOOD. 
          MAY WE WORK TOGETHER TO CREATE A CITY THAT IS, THAT FOSTERS SAFETY OPPORTUNITY AND UNITY FOR ALL. 
          GRANT US THE STRENGTH TO LEAD WITH INTEGRITY, THE PATIENCE TO LISTEN, AND THE COURAGE TO ACT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF ALL OF OUR NEIGHBORS. 
          THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE. 
          AMEN. 
          AMEN. 
          I PLEDGE JESUS TO FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC. 
          REPUBLIC. 
          WHICH OF STAND ONE NATION HONOR GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL, HONOR THE TEXAS FLAG. 
          I HAVE LEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE TEXAS ONE STATE UNDER GOD, ONE AND INDIVISIBLE. 
          THANK YOU MAYOR PEARL TAM. 
          ALRIGHT, WE HAVE A FEW 
          [  DVAM Awareness Month-October 2024 (Ms. Ashton Story-Thriving Hearts Crisis Center) presented by Councilmember Heyward]
PROCLAMATIONS. 
          OUR FIRST PROCLAMATION IS DVAM AWARENESS MONTH, OCTOBER, 2024. 
          AND, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER HAYWARD WILL BE READING THAT PROCLAMATION. 
          IF I COULD PLEASE HAVE THE REPRESENTATIVES JOIN US UP HERE. 
          GOOD AFTERNOON OR EVENING, I SHOULD SAY, READING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AWARENESS MONTH, OCTOBER, 2024. 
          WHEREAS THE CRIME OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE VIOLATES AN INDIVIDUAL'S PRIVACY AND DIGNITY, SECURITY AND HUMANITY DUE TO THE SYSTEMATIC USE OF PHYSICAL, EMOTIONAL, SEXUAL, PHYSIOLOGICAL AND ECONOMIC CONTROLLED AND ARE ABUSE, INCLUDING ABUSE TO CHILDREN AND THE ELDERLY. 
          WHEREAS THE PROBLEM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ARE NOT CONFINED TO ANY GROUP OR GROUPS OF PEOPLE, BUT CUT ACROSS ALL ECONOMIC, RACIAL AND SOCIAL SOCIETAL BARRIERS AND ARE SUPPORTED BY SOCIETAL INDIFFERENCES. 
          AND WHEREAS THE IMPACT OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IS WIDE RANGING, DIRECTLY AFFECTING INDIVIDUALS AND SOCIETY AS A WHOLE. 
          HERE IN THIS COMMUNITY, THRIVING HEART CRISIS CENTER, FORMERLY GUADALUPE VALLEY FAMILY VIOLENCE SHELTER ANSWERED 1025 CRISIS CALL AND PROVIDED 8,431 SERVICES TO SURVIVORS FROM SEPTEMBER, 2023 TO 2024. 
          WHEREAS WOMEN ARE NOT ONLY TARGETS MEN, YOUNG CHILDREN, AND THE ELDERLY ARE ALL VICTIMS. AND SADLY, EMOTIONAL SCARS ARE OFTEN PERMANENT IN DOMESTIC VIOLENCE COSTS. 
          THE UNITED STATES COMPANIES AT LEAST $3.5 BILLION IN LOST WORK TIME, INCREASED HEALTHCARE COSTS, HIGHER TURNOVER AND LOWER PRODUCTIVITY, AND WHERE IT IS BETTER WOMEN THEMSELVES WHO HAVE BEEN THE FOREFRONT OF THE EFFORTS TO BRING PEACE AND EQUALITY TO HOMES. 
          NOW THEREFORE, ON BEHALF OF THE MAYOR, RALPH GUTIERREZ, MAYOR OF CITY OF CHURCH DO HEREBY CLAIM THE MONTH OF OCTOBER, 2024 AS DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AWARENESS MONTH. 
          THAT'S AWFUL. 
          ANYONE LIKE THIS? SAY SOMETHING. 
          HI EVERYONE. 
          MY NAME'S MANJE IKA AND I AM THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AT THRIVING HEARTS CRISIS CENTER. 
          WE'VE BEEN SERVING GUADALUPE COUNTY FOR OVER 41 YEARS NOW, AND UNFORTUNATELY THE NEED FOR OUR SERVICES CONTINUES TO GROW. 
          WITH THAT, ALONG COMES OUR EXPANSION AND A LOT OF NEW FACES, UM, SO BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR US. 
          WE ARE ALSO HAVING A, UM, OUR ANNUAL FUNDRAISER THIS THURSDAY, SO THERE'S STILL TIME TO GET TICKETS FOR THAT. 
          UM, BOOTS AND BUTTERFLIES, UH, IN HONOR OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AWARENESS MONTH AND ALSO TO SUPPORT OUR EFFORTS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR. 
          SO THANK YOU. 
          [00:05:18]
OUR NEXT, UH, PROCLAMATION 
          [  Fentanyl Poisoning Awareness Month-October 2024 (Johnson Family) presented by Councilmember Watson]
IS FENTANYL POISONING AWARENESS MONTH, OCTOBER, 2024. 
          MS. MARTHA, MR. LANE, IF YOU CAN PLEASE JOIN ME UP HERE AND COUNCIL MEMBER WATSON WILL BE READING THE PROCLAMATION FENTANYL POISON AWARENESS OCTOBER, 2024. 
          WHEREAS ON JUNE 20, JUNE 14TH, 2023, GOVERNOR ABBOTT SIGNED FOUR NEW LAWS INTO THE STATE FIGHTING AGAINST THE DEADLY O OPIATE. 
          AND WHEREAS DURING THE MONTH OF OCTOBER, CITIES ACROSS THE STATE RESERVE, TEXAS FENTANYL POISONING AWARENESS MONTH TO RECOGNIZE THE COMMITMENT THE STATE HAS TO COMBAT THE DEADLY FENTANYL EPIDEMIC, WHEREAS MANY OF THE LISTED DRUGS AFFLICTING COMMUNITIES ACROSS AMERICA TODAY, FENTANYL IS THE SINGLE, SINGLE DEADLIEST DRUG CRISIS OUR STATE NATION AND EVERY ENCOUNTERED. 
          WHEREAS FENTANYL IS NOW THE, SORRY, HOLD ON. 
          NOW THE LEADING KILLER OF AMERICA, AMERICANS, SORRY, BETWEEN THE AGES OF 18 AND 45 FENTANYL RELATED DEATHS IN TEXAS INCREASE OVER 500% FROM 2019 TO 2022, TAKING THE LIVES OF MORE THAN 4,800 UNSUSPECTED TEXANS IN JUST THREE YEARS AND LEAVING UNTOLD NUMBERS OF TO COPE WITH THE SUDDEN LOSS. 
          AND WHEREAS IT IS IMPORTANT THAT EVERY TEXAN IS AWARE OF THE FENTANYL CRISIS PLAGUING OUR STATE FENTANYL POISONING AWARENESS MONTH WILL BE LIFESAVING EFFORTS TO PROTECT OUR FAMILY, FRIENDS, MEMBERS AND LOVED ONES FROM THE, FROM THIS KILLER. 
          NOW THEREFORE, IT IS RESOLVED THAT RALPH GUTIERREZ MAYOR OF CITY OF SHEZ, TEXAS DO HEREBY PROCLAIM THE MONTH OF OCTOBER 24TH AS FENTANYL POISONING AWARENESS MONTH. 
          THANK YOU. 
          APPRECIATE IT. 
          GOOD EVENING, MAYOR GUTIERREZ, COUNCIL MEMBERS GUESS AND FELLOW SHIRTZ RESIDENTS. 
          MY NAME'S LANE JOHNSON AND I'M HONORED TO BE ALONGSIDE MY WIFE, MARTHA ANGEL, GRANDMA, ALONG WITH, UH, AN ANGEL MOM THAT HAS BEEN RIGHT BY OUR SIDE THROUGH ALL OF THIS AND ALL HER FRIENDS AND FAMILY. 
          TODAY WE GATHER TO MARK'S SIGNIFICANT MOMENT IN THE CITY'S HISTORY SHORTS, FIRST EVER FENTANYL POISONING AWARENESS MONTH. 
          THIS PROCLAMATION IS A TESTAMENT TO OUR COMMITMENT IN CONFRONTING THE DEFICIT DEVASTATING CRISIS THAT HAS AFFECTED COUNTLESS LIVES ACROSS THE STATE. 
          AS WE COME TOGETHER THIS EVENING, WE CANNOT IGNORE THE HARSH REALITY THAT FENTANYL POISONING HAS TAKEN FAR TOO MANY PRECIOUS LIVES. 
          ALONG WITH BELOVED CHILDREN JAKE RYAN PEZ, OUR GRANDSON WHO CAME TO LIVE WITH US AFTER HIS MOM PASSED SEVEN YEARS AGO. 
          DONICA CAP, CODY DRAGO, KYLE HINKLE, BRANDON WILLIAMS, AND JACOB MANCA AND MANY MORE. 
          THESE ARE JUST A FEW OF OUR ANGEL MOM CHILDREN. 
          WE HONOR THE RESILIENCE OF THE FAMILIES WHO HAVE BEEN FACED WITH THIS UNIMAGINABLE PAIN AND LOSS OF THEIR LOVED ONES. 
          AND WE RECOGNIZE THE STRENGTH THAT IT TAKES TO SHARE THEIR STORIES OF HOPE, PREVENTING OTHERS FROM ENDURING THE SAME HEARTACHE. 
          FENTANYL IS AN UNFORGIVING DRUG. 
          IT IS POTENT AND DEADLY SUBSTANCE THAT IS MIXED IN WITH ALL OTHER DRUGS, THUS MAKING IT A SILENT AND LETHAL THREAT. 
          WE VOW TO EDUCATE OUR PARENTS AND STUDENTS THROUGH OUR SCHOOLS AND THROUGHOUT OUR COMMUNITIES WITH A VARIETY OF OUTREACHES ABOUT THE DANGERS OF FENTANYL, THE SIGNS OF POISONING AND THE RESOURCES AVAILABLE TO PREVENT, UH, FOR PREVENTION, TREATMENT AND RESTORATION. 
          OUR GOAL IS TO TURN THE TIDE OF THIS CRISIS AND PROVIDE HOPE AND HEALING TO ALL OF THOSE IN NEED. 
          WE MUST REMEMBER THAT EVERY LIFE LOST AS A PROFOUND TRAGEDY, BUT IT ALSO SERVES AS A POWERFUL REMINDER OF THE URGENCY OF THE MISSION. 
          ON SUNDAY, WE GATHERED AT BROOK CITY GREEN LINE, ALONG WITH OTHERS 
          [00:10:01]
FROM OUR GREAT STATE, AN HONOR TO MEMORY THOSE WE IN THE MEMORY OF THOSE WE'VE LOST AND SUPPORT, UH, WHO CONTINUE TO BATTLE AND TO SHARE OUR UNWAVERING COMMITMENT AND SAVING LIVES. 
          IN OUR SECOND ANNUAL SOULS WALKING FOR SOULS FENTANYL AWARENESS WALK, GOVERNOR ABBOTT, SENATOR STATE SENATOR DONNA CAMPBELL, STATE REP JOHN LUHAN, JUDGE P PETER PEKAY SIAH, I'M SORRY, AND MULTIPLE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER WERE PRESENT, AGENCIES WERE PRESENT, WE HAD FOOD TRUCKS, LIVE, MU MUSIC AND A CANDLELIGHT VISUAL. 
          WE KNOW THAT TOGETHER WE CAN MAKE A DIS DIFFERENCE, RAISE AWARENESS, PROMOTE ADVOCACY, AND BUILD A TEXAS WHERE THE DEVASTATING IMPACT OF FENTANYL IS A THING OF THE PAST. 
          WE GREATLY APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US AT THIS CRI IN THIS CRITICAL ENDEAVOR, ALLOWING US TO CARRY THIS MESSAGE OF HOPE AND AWARENESS THROUGHOUT THE MONTH AHEAD AND BEYOND. 
          WE ARE SO INCREDIBLY GRATEFUL AND DEEPLY. 
          THANK YOU ALL. 
          APPRECIATE IT. 
          THANK OUR NEXT PROCLAMATION 
          [    National Manufacturing Month-October 2024 (Mr.Scott Wayman) presented by Councilmember Macaluso]
IS NATIONAL MANUFACTURING MONTH, OCTOBER, 2024. 
          UM, AND PRESENTING THE PROCLAMATION, OH, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT HERE, THAT'S WHY IT IS. 
          UH, COUNCILMAN BUR ALISO AND IF I CAN PLEASE HAVE THE REPRESENTATIVES UP HERE FOR THAT MIKE PIERCE. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          NATIONAL MANUFACTURING MONTH, OCTOBER 4TH, 2024. 
          WHEREAS THE CITY OF SHIRTS ACKNOWLEDGES THE VITAL ROLE THE MANUFACTURING SECTOR PLAYS IN OUR COMMUNITY, PROVIDING HIGH PAYING JOBS, CONTRIBUTING TO ECONOMIC GROWTH AND ENHANCING THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR OUR RESIDENTS. 
          AND WHEREAS MANUFACTURING COMPANIES AND SHIRTS ARE A CORNERSTONE OF OUR LOCAL ECONOMY CONTRIBUTING SIGNIFICANTLY TO THE PROSPERITY AND STABILITY OF OUR REGION. 
          AND WHEREAS MANUFACTURING MONTH IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CELEBRATE THE ACHIEVEMENTS OF OUR LOCAL MANUFACTURERS, HIGHLIGHT THE IMPORTANCE OF A STRONG AND THRIVING MANUFACTURING SECTOR AND SHOWCASE THE EXCITING AND REWARDING CAREERS AVAILABLE IN MANUFACTURING. 
          AND WHEREAS A SHIRT'S ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION IS COMMITTED TO SUPPORTING AND PROMOTING THE GROWTH OF MANUFACTURING BUSINESSES WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY, ENSURING THAT SHIRTZ REMAINS AN ATTRACTIVE DESTINATION FOR INVESTMENT, INNOVATION AND TALENT. 
          AND WHEREAS THE CITY OF SHIRTZ IN COLLABORATION WITH THE SHIRTZ EDC IS DEDICATED TO FOSTERING ENVIRONMENT THAT ENCOURAGES THE GROWTH AND SUSTAINABILITY OF THE MANUFACTURING INDUSTRY THROUGH WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT, INFRASTRUCTURE, INVESTMENT, AND BUSINESS FRIENDLY POLICIES. 
          AND WHEREAS MANUFACTURING MONTH OFFERS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR RESIDENTS, BUSINESSES, EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE MANUFACTURING INDU INDUSTRY AND EXPLORE THE MANY CAREER AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES IT PRESENTS, NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVE THAT RALPH GUTIERREZ MAYOR, THE CITY OF SHIRTZ, HEREBY PROCLAIMS THE MONTH OF OCTOBER AS MANUFACTURING MONTH IN THE CITY OF SHIRTZ AND URGES ALL CITIZENS TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND SUPPORT OUR LOCAL MANUFACTURERS AND THE SHORT SHIRTZ ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION'S EFFORT TO STRENGTHEN AND GROW OUR MANUFACTURING SECTOR. 
          THANK YOU COUNCILMAN MICHAEL LUSO AND MAYOR, I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS. 
          UM, MY NAME IS SCOTT WAYMAN. 
          I'M THE EDC DIRECTOR FOR THE CITY. 
          YOU KNOW, CHURCH IS FORTUNATE TO HAVE VERY LARGE MANUFACTURERS LIKE CISCO AND CATERPILLAR AND SMALL ONES LIKE NAI SIGNS AND UH, AND MAJOR WIRE. 
          UH, THE IMPORTANCE OF THOSE MANUFACTURERS IS THEIR, THEIR MONEY THAT, THAT WHEN THEY SELL PRODUCTS OUTSIDE THE REGION, IT RETURNS TO THE CITY AND THAT HELPS US KIND OF BUILD OUR ECONOMY. 
          SO MANUFACTURING'S VERY IMPORTANT AND WE SINCERELY APPRECIATE THIS, UH, RESOLUTION. 
          THANK YOU. 
          [00:15:29]
OUR NEXT PROCLAMATION 
          [  Hill Country Night Sky Month-October 2024 (Ms. Susan Fisher) presented by Mayor Pro-Tem Westbrook]
IS THE, UH, HILL COUNTRY NIGHT SKY MONTH, OCTOBER, 2020 FOURTH. 
          AND THE PROCLAMATION WILL BE READ BY MAYOR PRO 10 WESTBROOK, IF I CAN PLEASE HAVE THE REPRESENTATIVES JOIN ME UP HERE. 
          WHEREAS WHEREAS THE AESTHETIC BEAUTY AND WONDER OF STARFIELD SKIES ARE THE HERITAGE OF ALL HUMANKIND AND LOCALLY TO THE INHABITANTS OF SHIRTS AND THE THEREFORE WORTHY OF CELEBRATION. 
          AND WHEREAS THE EXPERIENCE OF STANDING BENEATH A STARFIELD NIGHT SKY INSPIRES FEELINGS OF WONDER AND AWE MAY ENCOURAGE INTEREST IN SCIENCE AND NATURE, ESPECIALLY AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE. 
          AND WHEREAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO VIEW STARFIELD SKIES ATTRACTS TOURS TO OUR REGION AND THEREFORE ECONOMIC BENEFIT TO SHIRTS. 
          AND WHEREAS PRESERVING THE RICH HERITAGE, HISTORIC HERITAGE, HISTORIC NIGHT SKIES OF SHIRTS IS IMPORTANT TO ITS RESIDENTS. 
          AND WHEREAS LIGHT POLLUTION, WHICH IS WASTED LIGHT THAT PERFORMS NO FUNCTION OR TASK AND ARTIFICIAL LIGHT THAT GOES WHERE IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO GO, IS CREATED BY GLARE, LIGHT, TRESPASS, SKY GLOW AND OVERLIGHTING. 
          AND WHEREAS LIGHT POLLUTION WASTES NATURAL RESOURCES AMOUNTING TO AT LEAST $2 BILLION PER YEAR AND CONTRIBUTES AND CONTRIBUTES TO DIMINISHED AMERICAN ENERGY INDEPENDENCE. 
          AND WHEREAS THE HISTORICAL VIEW OF THE NIGHT SKIES HAS BEEN ERODING IN MANY NEARBY AREAS, AND GENERATIONS ARE GROWING UP WITH LIMITED, IF ANY VIEW OF THE WONDERS OF THE UNIVERSE. 
          AND WHEREAS THE INFLUX OF PEOPLE INTO THE TEXAS HILL COUNTRY, TEXAS HILL COUNTRY REGION AND THE ACCOMPANYING LIGHT POLLUTION FROM AREA LIGHTING FIXTURES HAS BEEN STEADILY ON THE RISE. 
          AND WHEREAS SOLVING THE PROBLEM OF LIGHT POLLUTION INVOLVES MAKING BETTER USE OF OUTDOOR LIGHTING TO DIRECT LIGHT DOWN TO WHERE IT IS NEEDED INSTEAD OF UPWARD INTO THE SKY PUTTING OUTDOOR LIGHTS ON TIMERS AND USING OUTDOOR LIGHTING ONLY WHERE NECESSARY. 
          AND WHEREAS HILL COUNTRY COMMUNITIES ARE INCREASINGLY DEDICATED TO THE PRESERVATION OF THE REGION'S NIGHT SKIES AS EVIDENCED BY THE FREQUENT EDUCATIONAL ACTIVITIES CONDUCTED IN OUR REGION AND BY INCREASING NUMBER OF PLACES IN OUR REGION. 
          ORDER NUMBER 3 6 7 ORDER AMENDING ORDER NUMBER 1 9 9 FOR REGULATION OF OUTDOOR LIGHTING IN THE UNINCORPORATED AREAS OF AL COUNTY, TEXAS. 
          WITHIN THREE MILES OF THE CAMP BULLIS BOUNDARY, GUADALUPE RIVER STATE PARK, UH, PARTY STAR PARTIES IN PARTNERSHIP WITH SAN ANTONIO ASTRONOMICAL ASSOCIATION, NEW BRAUNFELS ASTRONOMY CLUB STAR PARTIES, COMAL COUNTY FRIENDS OF THE NIGHT SKY, BRACKEN CAVE PRESERVE, AND THE AL COUNTY DARK SKY. 
          RESOLUTION NUMBER 2 2 0 1 8 DASH 26. 
          AND WHEREAS THE REGIONAL EFFORT AND PRESERVATION AND CELEBRATION OF OUR NIGHT SKIES IS WORTHY OF A MONTH LONG CELEBRATION NOW THEREFORE, RALPH GUTIERREZ, MAYOR OF THE CITY OF SHIRTZ DOES HEREBY PROCLAIM THE MONTH OF OCTOBER, 2024 AS HILL COUNTRY NIGHT, SKY MONTH. 
          THERE YOU GO. 
          COMAL COUNTY FRIENDS OF THE NIGHT SKY AND THE HILL COUNTRY ALLIANCE. 
          THANK YOU FOR CELEBRATING OCTOBER NIGHT SKY MONTH WITH US. 
          IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO LEARN HOW TO MAKE YOUR HOME AND OR BUSINESS NIGHT SKY FRIENDLY, PLEASE VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.COMALDARKSKY.ORG AND THE HILL COUNTRY ALLIANCES WEBSITE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          OUR FINAL PROCLAMATION 
          [  National Community Planning Month-October 2024 (Planning Department) presented by Councilmember Brown]
IS THE NATIONAL COMMUNITY PLANNING MONTH, OCTOBER, 2024. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN WILL READ THE PROCLAMATION. 
          IF I CAN PLEASE HAVE THE REPRESENTATIVES JOIN ME UP HERE. 
          GOOD EVENING, CITY OF CHURCH'S PROCLAMATION COMMUNITY PLANNING MONTH, 
          [00:20:01]
OCTOBER, 2024. 
          WHEREAS CHANGE IS CONSTANT AND AFFECTS ALL CITIES, TOWNS, SUBURBS, COUNTIES, BOROUGHS, TOWNSHIPS, RURAL AREAS AND OTHER PLACES. 
          AND WHEREAS COMMUNITY PLANNING AND PLANS CAN HELP MANAGE THIS CHANGE IN A WAY THAT PROVIDES BETTER CHOICES FOR HOW PEOPLE WORK AND LIVE. 
          AND WHEREAS COMMUNITY PLANNING PROVIDES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL RESIDENTS TO BE MEANINGFULLY INVOLVED IN MAKING CHOICES THAT DETERMINE THE FUTURE OF THEIR COMMUNITY. 
          AND WHEREAS THE FULL BENEFITS OF PLANNING RE REQUIRES PUBLIC OFFICIALS AND CITIZENS WHO UNDERSTAND SUPPORT AND DEMAND EXCELLENCE IN PLANNING AND PLAN IMPLEMENTATION. 
          AND WHEREAS THE MONTH OF OCTOBER IS DESIGNATED AS NATIONAL COMMUNITY PLANNING MONTH THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND ITS TERRITORIES. 
          AND WHEREAS AMERICAN PLANNING ASSOCIATION ENDORSES NATIONAL COMMUNITY PLANNING MONTH AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO HIGHLIGHT HOW PLANNING IS ESSENTIAL TO RECOVERY AND HOW PLANNERS CAN LEAD COMMUNITIES TO EQUITABLE, RESILIENT AND LONG LASTING RECOVERY. 
          AND WHEREAS THE CELEBRATION OF NATIONAL COMMUNITY PLANNING MONTH GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO PUBLICLY RECOGNIZE THE PARTICIPATION AND DEDICATION OF THE MEMBERS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSIONS AND OTHER CITIZEN PLANNERS WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED THEIR TIME AND EXPERTISE TO THE IMPROVEMENT OF THE CITY OF SHIRTZ. 
          AND WHEREAS WE RECOGNIZE THE MANY VALUABLE CONTRIBUTIONS MADE BY THE PLANNING DIVISION OF THE CITY OF SHIRTZ AND EXTEND OUR HEARTFELT THANKS FOR THE CONTINUED COMMITMENT TO PUBLIC SERVICE BY THESE PROFESSIONALS. 
          NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT RALPH GUTIERREZ MAYOR HEREBY PROCLAIMS THE MONTH OF OCTOBER 24 AS COMMUNITY PLANNING MONTH. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, GOOD EVENING. 
          MY NAME IS EMILY DELGADO. 
          I'M THE PLANNING MANAGER HERE WITH THE PLANNING DIVISION FOR THE CITY. 
          UM, THANK Y'ALL VERY MUCH FOR THE PROCLAMATION. 
          IN ADDITION TO THE PROCLAMATION, WE'VE ALSO ACCOMPLISHED SOME SIGNIFICANT TASKS THIS YEAR, INCLUDING THE ADOPTION OF THE COMPREHENSIVE LAND USE PLAN, SOME SIGNIFICANT UDC AMENDMENTS. 
          AND ANOTHER ITEM IS WE JUST RECENTLY RECEIVED THE AMERICAN PLANNING ASSOCIATION PLANNING EXCELLENCE AWARD FOR THE 11TH YEAR IN A ROW, WHICH IS A PRETTY BIG DEAL FOR US. 
          UM, SO JUST THANK YOU TO THE DIVISION AND THANK YOU TO COUNCIL FOR THE RECOGNITION. 
          ALRIGHT, UH, NEXT ON 
          [ Employee Introductions 	Public Works: Justin Stead,Water/Wastewater Worker I; Damontell Thompshon,Water/Wastewater Worker I 	Inspections: Derik Samuelson,Plans Examiner 	Public Affairs: Tatum Hearn, Marketing & Communications Specialist 	Schertz-Seguin Local Government Corporation:  Philip DeFrancesco,SSLGC Assistant General Manager]
THE AGENDA, THE EMPLOYEE INTRODUCTIONS. 
          UH, IF I CAN HAVE PUBLIC WORKS EVENING MAYOR COUNCIL, I HAVE WITH US. 
          UH, UH, JUSTIN, UH, HE'S IN OUR WATER WASTEWATER DIVISION, NEW TO US. 
          HE'S BORN IN SAN ANTONIO, MOVED TO CHURCHS IN 1998. 
          UH, HE ATTENDED THE SCHOOL SYSTEM HERE AT ROSE GARDEN SHELTER,  WILDER. 
          CORBETT CLEMONS. 
          UH, GRADUATED IN 2009, UH, PURCHASED A HOME WITH CONVERSE IN 2017. 
          UH, WELCOME HIS FIRST SON IN MAY OF 2021. 
          UH, LIKES WORKING ON VEHICLES, HUNTING, FISHING, SPENDING TIME WITH HIS FAMILY AND, UH, CHALLENGING HIMSELF WITH NEW TASKS AND LEARNING NEW SKILLS. 
          JUSTICE, WELCOME TO OUR TEAM. 
          UH, MIKE'S, YOUR, THE MIKE'S YOURS IF YOU LIKE TO SAY A FEW WORDS. 
          NO , RIGHT . 
          ALL RIGHTY. 
          ALSO, WE HAVE, UH, TEL OR MONEY LIKES TO BE CALLED. 
          UH, HE IS BORN IN SMALL TOWN IN LOUISIANA CALLED MONROEVILLE. 
          UH, MOVED TO A BEACH TOWN IN FLORIDA, UH, NOVAR, I GUESS, UH, ATTENDED HIGH SCHOOL THERE. 
          UH, PLAYED A LITTLE FOOTBALL WITH WESTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY. 
          UH, HE HAS A, UM, YOUNGER SISTER AND IS ALSO, UH, BRAND NEW TO TEXAS AND HAS WELCOMED A NEW, UH, BABY GIRL AND ALSO HAS A FIVE YEAROLD SON. 
          UH, ALSO LIKES TO SPEND TIME OUTDOORS, HIKING, FISHING, UH, AND, UH, MOST IMPORTANTLY AS A FAMILY MAN. 
          SO WOULD LIKE SPENDING TIME WITH HIM. 
          MIKE'S SEA. 
          WE'D LIKE TO SAY A FEW WORDS. 
          I MEAN, UH, I GUESS SO, UM, , I MEAN, UM, I'M REALLY NOT A MAN OF MANY WORDS, BUT I REALLY DO APPRECIATE LIKE EVERY OPPORTUNITY THAT I DO GET, YOU KNOW, COMING FROM A SMALL TOWN IN VILLE, LOUISIANA, COMING, YOU KNOW, 
          [00:25:01]
STRAIGHT COUNTRY MUD BOY, YOU KNOW, COMING TO A DIFFERENT CITY AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF WHAT'S GOING ON. 
          YOU KNOW, I JUST APPRECIATE EVERYTHING. 
          I APPRECIATE, UH, MR. JEREMY AND MR. MATT FOR GIVING ME A CHANCE TO LIKE SHOW WHAT WE CAN DO. 
          YOU KNOW, ME AND JUSTIN, LIKE WE WAS IN THE SAME INTRODUCTORY CLASS. 
          YOU KNOW, WE WENT THROUGH ALL THE CLASSES TOGETHER, SO, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY JUST APPRECIATE IT, MAN. 
          WELL, GENTLEMEN, WELCOME TO OUR TEAM. 
          APPRECIATE IT. 
          NEXT WE HAVE, UH, PUBLIC AFFAIRS. 
          OKAY, GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. 
          I AM PLEASED TO INTRODUCE TO YOU GUYS TONIGHT OUR NEW MARKETING AND COMMUNICATIONS SPECIALIST, TATUM HEARN. 
          UH, TATUM IS A RECENT GRADUATE OF TEXAS STATE UNIVERSITY AND SHE ACTUALLY JOINED OUR TEAM LAST WEEK, SO SHE'S VERY NEW. 
          UM, SHE COMES TO US FROM THE CITY OF BERNIE, WHERE SHE WAS AN INTERN FOR THE LAST FOUR MONTHS IN THEIR COMMUNICATIONS DEPARTMENT. 
          UM, SHE'S ORIGINALLY FROM BEAUMONT, TEXAS, BUT DUE TO HER DAD'S CAREER IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, THEY SORT OF MOVED AROUND A BIT BEFORE SHE LANDED IN NORTH AUSTIN. 
          UM, IN HER SPARE TIME, SHE ENJOYS WATCHING MOVIES, TV, AND ABOVE ALL ELSE ENJOYS SPENDING TIME WITH HER FAMILY AND THEIR 7-YEAR-OLD LABRADOODLE TIE. 
          AND WE ARE REALLY EXCITED TO HAVE TATUM JOIN OUR TEAM AND HAVE HER SHARE HER TALENTS WITH US. 
          SO THIS IS TATE. 
          HELLO . 
          HI TATU. 
          UM, I'M JUST REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS OPPORTUNITY TO GROW WITHIN THIS COMMUNITY. 
          UM, THIS IS MY FIRST CAREER JOB POST GRAD, SO I'M JUST LOOKING FORWARD TO SEE WHERE I WILL BE IN THE NEAR FUTURE. 
          SO THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH. 
          WELL, WELCOME TO OUR TEAM. 
          I WAS WONDERING WHO THE NEW PAPARAZZI WAS UP THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD, BUT YEP, SHE'S JUMPED RIGHT IN, SO YEAH, SHE STEPPED RIGHT IN. 
          YEAH, WELCOME. 
          NEXT WE HAVE A SHIRT, SEIN, LOCAL GOVERNMENT CORPORATION. 
          GOOD EVENING, MR. MAYOR AND COUNSEL. 
          UH, IT'S MY DISTINCT PLEASURE TO WELCOME OUR NEW ASSISTANT GENERAL MANAGER FOR S-S-L-G-C. 
          MR. PHILLIP D FRANCESCO. 
          UM, HE WAS, UH, BORN IN AUSTIN, BUT RAISED IN BRUSS COUNTY RIGHT AROUND THE, UH, UH, UH, BRYAN COLLEGE STATION AREA. 
          HE ATTENDED BRYAN HIGH SCHOOL. 
          UH, HE'S A GRADUATE OF A AND M WHOOP, UM, WITH A BACHELOR OF SCIENCE IN ENVIRONMENTAL, UH, BIO ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE. 
          AND THEN HE ALSO HAS HIS MASTER'S IN PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION FROM TEXAS A AND M AND CORPUS CHRISTI. 
          UH, HE'S SPENT, UH, SINCE TWO, 2005, HE'S BEEN IN, UH, PUBLIC SERVICE, UH, FOR THE STATE OF TEXAS AND FOR VARIOUS MUNICIPALITIES. 
          HE'S BEEN WITH US NOW FOR JUST A COUPLE OF MONTHS. 
          UH, HE'S BEEN MARRIED, UH, SINCE 2009, AND, UH, THEY'RE, UH, EXCITED TO BE HOSTING AN EXCHANGE STUDENT FROM, UH, SWITZERLAND AT THIS POINT IN TIME. 
          UH, PRIOR TO 2021, HE LIVED IN CORPUS CHRISTI, UH, BRIAN AND IN IN FORT WORTH. 
          ALSO, UH, HE ENJOYS MOTORCYCLES AND CARS, CAMPING AND COMPUTER TECHNICIAN WORK, AND HE'S ALSO A MEMBER OF THE ROTARY CLUB IN NEW BRAUNFELS. 
          WITH THAT, MR. CHIEF FRANCESCO, WELL THANK YOU ANDREW FOR INTRODUCTION, UM, COUNCIL AND FELLOW STAFF, I'M VERY HAPPY TO BE HERE. 
          THANK YOU FOR WELCOMING AS A MEMBER OF TEAM SHIRTS, AND I'M, UH, LOOKING FORWARD TO, YOU KNOW, PROVIDING GOOD SERVICE FOR THE COMMUNITY AND FOR THE CITIZENS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          WELCOME TO OUR TEAM. 
          NEXT WE 
          [  Recognition of the 2024 Emerging Leaders Class (S.Gonzalez/J.Kurz)]
HAVE THE, UH, PRE PRESENTATION RECOGNITION OF THE 2024 EMERGENT LEADERS CLASS. 
          I'M GONNA SAY SOMETHING FIRST. 
          , GOOD EVENING MAYOR COUNCIL. 
          UM, THEY'RE SUPER EXCITED TO COME DOWN AND HELP ME HONOR, UM, THE CLASS 20 20 24 CLASS OF EMERGING LEADERS. 
          SO, IF YOU'LL RECALL, UM, IN 2022, THE CITY DEVELOPED IN, IN CONCERT WITH STRATEGIC RESOURCES, UH, GOVERNMENT RESOURCES. 
          THE CITY DEVELOPED THE EMERGING LEADERS PROGRAM AS A COMPREHENSIVE EFFORT TO PROVIDE ADVANCED TRAINING TO BUDDING LEADERS IN ALL DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THE CITY, UH, AND ALL AND AT ALL LEVELS SO THAT THEY COULD REACH THEIR LEADERSHIP POTENTIAL AND ADD EVEN MORE VALUE TO THE QUALITY OF SERVICE THAT THE CITY PROVIDES TO ITS CUSTOMERS. 
          SO THE PROGRAM CONSISTS OF AN EIGHT MONTH, EIGHT MONTH CURRICULUM OF TRAINING, DEVELOPING AND HONING THE LEADERSHIP SKILLS OF CITY OF SHIRTS EMPLOYEES TRAINING INCLUDES AND INCORPORATES CONCEPTS RELATED TO LEADERSHIP, HUMAN BEHAVIOR, TRUST, EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION, CONFLICT RESOLUTION, EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE, 
          [00:30:01]
TEAM DYNAMICS, MENTORING AND COACHING. 
          PARTICIPANTS IN THE PROGRAM HAVE A MENTOR TO ASSIST THEM THROUGH THE PROGRAM AND PROVIDE COUNSEL AT REGULAR INTERVALS. 
          EMPLOYEES WHO COMPLETE THE PROGRAM WILL BE EQUIPPED WITH A STRONGER SKILLSET READYING THEMSELVES FOR CAREER GROWTH AND OPPORTUNITIES THAT MAY ARISE. 
          IN FACT, WE'RE REALLY PROUD TO SAY THAT WE'VE ALREADY HAVE, HAVE HAD MORE THAN FIVE EMPLOYEES WHO HAVE PROMOTED EITHER WHILE DURING THEIR TENURE, UM, IN THE PROGRAM OR SINCE COMPLETING THE PROGRAM. 
          SO THAT'S REALLY AWESOME TO SEE, UM, THAT, THAT GROWTH THAT'S COME THROUGH THE PROGRAM. 
          SO WE'RE HERE TONIGHT TO RECOGNIZE THE ACCOMPLISHMENT OF THE 2024 CLASS OF EMERGING LEADERS. 
          AND SO SUPER EXCITED TO HAVE THE MAYOR AND MR. WILLIAMS IF Y'ALL COME ON OVER. 
          UM, AND SO WHEN I CALL YOUR NAME PARTICIPANTS, IF YOU'LL PLEASE COME UP TO BE RECOGNIZED. 
          AND I SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS AND DIDN'T. 
          SO BETTER LATE THAN NEVER. 
          HERE IS THE CLASS OF 2024. 
          OH, NOPE, JUST KIDDING. 
          THERE YOU GO. 
          THANK YOU. 
          . 
          HERE IS THE CLASS OF 2024, AND SO OUR FIRST PARTICIPANT TO BE RECOGNIZED TONIGHT IS AMY ANDERSON FROM EMS, WHO'S A WHENEVER. 
          OH, GO STAND. 
          GO STAND WITH THEM. 
          I'M NOT GONNA BE IN THESE PICTURES. 
          THERE YOU GO. 
          GET A PICTURE WITH THEM. 
          GOOD PLACE TO PUT IT. 
          THERE WE GO. 
          IF I CAN HAVE YOU COME STAND OVER HERE, YOUR COMPADRES ARE GONNA COME JOIN YOU. 
          NEXT UP IS GOING TO BE THOMAS BROOKS, OUR MASTER ELECTRICIAN IN INTERNAL SERVICES. 
          COME ON OVER AND JOIN AMY. 
          NEXT UP IS NICK FERRIS PUBLIC WORKS ASSISTANT DIRECTOR JACKIE MARBA WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. 
          COME ON. 
          JACKIE. 
          ALBERT OROZCO CIVIC CENTER. 
          HI. 
          OVER NEXT WE HAVE SIDNEY PEREZ FROM PARKS CODY RAINS FROM PLANNING COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, MAYBE. 
          OH, OKAY. 
          I WAS NOT AWARE. 
          SORRY ABOUT THAT. 
          WELL, UNFORTUNATELY CODY COULDN'T BE WITH US TONIGHT, SO WE'LL HONOR HIM LATER. 
          , SARAH RODRIGUEZ. 
          ALSO CATHERINE SHIELD FROM PARKS FRIENDS OVER HERE. 
          AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, YOLANDA 
          [00:35:01]
VALDEZ FROM HUMAN RESOURCES. 
          IF Y'ALL WANNA GET TOGETHER FOR A QUICK PICTURE, UM, PLEASE, Y'ALL WOULD COME UP REAL QUICK. 
          I DO WANNA JUST MENTION, UM, AND GIVE A SPECIAL THANKS TO ALL OF THE PROGRAM MENTORS WITHOUT WHOM IT WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE. 
          UM, THEY GIVE THEIR TIME TO, TO MEET WITH THESE EMERGING LEADERS AND TO PROVIDE, UM, MENTORSHIP AND, AND FRIENDSHIP AND RELATIONSHIP AND JUST BUILDING NETWORKS. 
          AND SO, UM, THANK YOU SO MUCH TO EVERYBODY WHO ACTS AS A, AS A MENTOR. 
          OBVIOUSLY, UH, SARAH COULDN'T BE HERE TONIGHT, SO I'M HERE ON HER BEHALF, BUT ALSO Z REED IS A INTEGRAL PART TO MAKING SURE THAT THIS PROGRAM RUNS SMOOTHLY, HELPING US COORDINATE, UM, THE CLASSES AND LUNCHES AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF. 
          SO DEFINITELY WANT TO TAKE A MINUTE TO RECOGNIZE THEM AS WELL. 
          SO THANK YOU SO MUCH AND GREAT JOB. 
          THANK YOU JESSICA. 
          UM, YOU JUST MET OUR CITY STAFF, OUR LEADERS FOR TOMORROW. 
          THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH AND WE HAVE GREAT THINGS COMING AND YOU'LL BE PART OF. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT, NEXT WE HAVE THE PUBLIC WORKS, 
          [ Public Works Department will be recognized by TML for R.O.A.D Ready Program (B.James/L.Busch)  ]
UH, DEPARTMENT. 
          WE'LL RECOGNIZE THE TML FOR ROAD READY PROGRAM. 
          GOOD EVENING. 
          I AM HERE JUST TO, UH, INTRODUCE RANDY GARZA, WHO'S WITH TML. 
          HE'S HERE TONIGHT TO PRESENT, UM, A CERTIFICATE OF ACHIEVEMENT TO OUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT, UH, FOR A PROGRAM THAT THEY HAVE RECENTLY COMPLETED. 
          SO WITH THAT, I'M GONNA INVITE RANDY TO COME UP AND MAKE THE PRESENTATION. 
          GOOD EVENING, MAYOR GUTIERREZ, MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL, CITY MANAGEMENT AND ESTEEM GUEST. 
          MY NAME IS RANDY GARZA AND I'M A SAFETY AND LOSS CONTROL SUPERVISOR AT TML RISK POOL. 
          I'M HONORED TO STAND BEFORE YOU TODAY TO CELEBRATE AN IMPORTANT ACHIEVEMENT FOR YOUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT, THE ROAD READY RECOGNITION AWARDED BY THE TML RISK POOL. 
          THIS ACKNOWLEDGEMENT REFLECTS YOUR COMMITMENT TO MAINTAINING THE HIGHEST SAFETY STANDARDS IN ONE OF YOUR BIGGEST EXPOSURE AREAS. 
          A SPECIAL ACKNOWLEDGEMENT GOES TO YOUR CITY MANAGEMENT TEAM AND KEY PERSONNEL THAT WORKED HARD TO RECEIVE THIS ACHIEVEMENT. 
          LARRY BUSH, NICHOLAS FERRIS, DESIREE JOHNSON AND NANCY TUMLINSON. 
          THEIR DEDICATION AND SUPPORT FOR THIS PROGRAM, UH, AS WELL AS THEIR COMMITMENT TO OUR PARTNERSHIP AT THE RISK POOL HAVE BEEN VITAL IN ACHIEVING THIS RECOGNITION. 
          THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR HARD WORK AND LEADERSHIP. 
          TOGETHER, WE ARE BUILDING A SAFER AND MORE RESILIENT COMMUNITY FOR EVERYONE I WOULD LIKE. 
          UH, NOW LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT TO READ THE LETTER AND PRESENT THE PLAQUE THAT HIGHLIGHTS YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS AND THE RECOGNITION Y'ALL HAVE RECEIVED. 
          TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN, WE ARE THRILLED TO EXTEND OUR HEARTFELT, OUR HEARTFELT CONGRATULATIONS TO THE CITY OF SHIRTZ FOR SU SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETING ALL FIVE DIGITAL BADGES OF THE ROAD READY PROGRAM. 
          THIS NOTEWORTHY ACHIEVEMENT IS A TESTAMENT TO THE COLLABORATIVE EFFORTS AND DEDICATION OF YOUR TEAM. 
          WORKING ON OR NEAR ROADWAYS CREATES THE POTENTIAL FOR CATASTROPHIC ENCOUNTERS WITH OTHER VEHICLES WHERE THE EXTENT OF DAMAGE AND INJURY IS NOT NECESSARILY RELATED TO FAULT. 
          THE ROAD READY INITIATIVE WAS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO ENSURE ALL STAFF ARE AWARE OF THESE POTENTIAL HAZARDS AND EXPOSURES. 
          THE SHIRTZ PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT HAS EXEMPLIFIED A PROACTIVE APPROACH, SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETING MAJOR ACTIVITIES ASSOCIATED WITH THE ROAD READY PROCESS. 
          THE ENCLOSED CERTIFICATE REC RECOGNIZES THE ORGANIZATION'S COMPLETION OF FIVE ROAD READY BADGES AND THE DEDICATION OF ALL STAFF TO PROVIDE A SAFE AND HEALTHY WORKPLACE. 
          THIS EFFORT IS PARAMOUNT TO THE PARTNERSHIP THAT TEXAS MUNICIPAL LEAGUE INTERGOVERNMENTAL RISK POOL SEEKS TO CREATE WITH ITS MEMBERS. 
          WE LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUED PARTNERSHIP AND LOSS PREVENTION AND RISK MANAGEMENT. 
          [00:40:01]
THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMITMENT AND CONGRATULATIONS ONCE AGAIN ON THIS REMARKABLE ACHIEVEMENT. 
          SINCERELY, IRVIN PIAN, OUR LOSS PREVENTION MANAGER. 
          NEXT, THE ROAD READY RECOGNITION CITY OF SHIRTZ. 
          THIS CERTIFIES THAT THE PUBLIC WORKS, UH, DEPARTMENT HAS ACHIEVED ALL ROAD READY BADGES, DEMONSTRATED A COMMITMENT TO EMPLOYEE SAFETY AND FULFILLING THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE TEXAS MUNICIPAL LEAGUE INTERGOVERNMENTAL RISK POOL LOSS PREVENTION PROGRAM. 
          AND IT'S SIGNED BY VIN YANICK AND MYSELF, RANDY GARZA. 
          SO I WANNA THANK Y'ALL FOR THIS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND HERE, HERE'S YOUR LETTER TOO. 
          HI, MY NAME'S DESIREE JOHNSON. 
          I'M THE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT FOR PUBLIC WORKS. 
          I JUST WANTED TO THANK RANDY, UH, WITH TML AND N AND NANCY TOMON. 
          UH, SHE'S OUR RISK AND SAFETY SPECIALIST. 
          FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH HER, UH, FURTHER GUIDANCE AND ASSISTANCE THROUGHOUT THE PROGRAM, IT ALSO WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE WITHOUT THE HELP OF OUR TRAINING AND CERTIFICATION TEAM, KEVIN ANDERSON, DEMITRI MARTINEZ, AND PAUL LOPEZ, WHO COULDN'T BE HERE. 
          OVER THE COURSE OF SIX MONTHS, WE WERE ABLE TO OBTAIN ALL FIVE BADGES OF THE PROGRAM. 
          AND HERE AT THE CITY OF SHIRTS, PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT PLACE A BIG EMPHASIS ON SAFETY AND TRAINING TO HELP PROMOTE A SAFE AND KNOWLEDGEABLE ENVIRONMENT FOR EMPLOYEES AND COMMUNITY. 
          ONCE AGAIN, THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO PARTICIPATED TO HELP MAKE THIS HAPPEN AND FOR HELPING SURE TO ACHIEVE THE STATUS OF BEING THE FIRST CITY IN CENTRAL TEXAS TO RECEIVE THIS MERIT. 
          AWESOME, THANK YOU. 
          THAT'S AWESOME. 
          THAT WAS INVOLVED IN THIS. 
          WE WILL MOVE ON. 
          [ City Events and Announcements 	Announcements of upcoming City Events (B. James/S. Gonzalez) 	Announcements and recognitions by the City Manager (S. Williams) 	Announcements and recognitions by the Mayor (R. Gutierrez)]
UH, NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS THE ANNOUNCEMENTS OF UPCOMING CITY EVENTS. 
          MR. JAMES, WE DO HAVE A FEW MAYOR, UH, THIS COMING FRIDAY, OCTOBER 18TH, WE HAVE, UH, MUSIC AND MOVIES IN THE PARK. 
          WE'RE DOING NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS. 
          THAT'S 7:00 PM TO 10:00 PM AT WENDY SWAN MEMORIAL PARK AT 4 6 0 1 CHERRY TREE DRIVE. 
          ALL AGE IS WELCOME. 
          THE NEXT DAY SATURDAY, OCTOBER 19TH IS ANOTHER STAR PARTY THAT'S 6:30 PM TO 8:30 PM AT CRESCENT BEND NATURE PARK. 
          12 8 0 5 SCHAEFER ROAD. 
          AND OUR NEXT CITY COUNCIL MEETING IS OCTOBER 22ND AT 6:00 PM HERE IN COUNCIL CHAMBERS. 
          OKAY. 
          ANNOUNCEMENTS AND RECOGNITIONS BY OUR CITY MANAGER, MR. WILLIAMS. THANK YOU MAYOR. 
          WE HAD A REALLY SUCCESSFUL NATIONAL NIGHT OUT. 
          WE HAD 30 NEIGHBORHOODS, WHICH IS THE MOST WE'VE EVER HAD REGISTER FOR THEIR THEIR NNO EVENT. 
          AND IT WAS GREAT TO SEE THE COMMUNITIES COME TOGETHER AND SUPPORT THIS EVENT. 
          WE HAD A GREAT TIME HANGING OUT AND MEETING THE NEIGHBORS, UH, AND ALL OF OUR STAFF AND COUNCIL GETTING OUT THERE. 
          THE PUBLIC WORKS DIVISION OR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT. 
          UM, I WANNA GIVE, UH, KUDOS TO ANTHONY JIMENEZ, MIGUEL SANDOVAL AND JORGE GUZMAN FOR THEIR PROMPT AND PROFESSIONAL RESPONSE TO A WATER LEAK. 
          UH, REPAIRS ON, UH, WELL ADD 75 37 FM 1518 NORTH AND ON OCTOBER 3RD, UM, SOME OF OUR RESIDENTS, DAVID AND THERESA VICK, WERE IMPRESSED WITH THE RESPONSIVENESS AND, UH, I THINK WE DON'T KNOW OFTEN REALIZE THAT THESE GUYS GET CALLED OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND HAVE TO DO, UH, SOME, SOME PRETTY TOUGH WORK. 
          SO ALSO, UH, CONGRATULATIONS TO, I DON'T SEE HER BACK THERE ANYMORE, BUT CASSIE PADDOCK, OUR RECREATION MANAGER. 
          SHE WAS RECOGNIZED BY THE NATIONAL RECREATION AND PARKS ASSOCIATION DURING THEIR BEST OF THE BEST AWARD CEREMONY AT THEIR NATIONAL CONFERENCE FOR RECEIVING THE PRESTIGIOUS N-N-R-P-A YOUNG PROFESSIONALS AWARD. 
          UH, YOUNG, YOUNG PROFESSIONAL AWARD. 
          UM, RICHARD GOMEZ EARNED HIS LICENSE FROM THE TDLR AS A CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER AND THE PLANNING STAFF, LIKE EMILY ALLUDED TO EARLIER, UH, THE PNZ AND CITY LEADERSHIP RECEIVED THE PLANNING EXCELLENCE AWARD FROM THE AMERICAN PLANNING ASSOCIATION, TEXAS CHAPTER. 
          AND ALSO WE HAD THE CITY RECEIVE THE TML 
          [00:45:01]
EXCELLENCE AWARD, TEXAS MUNICIPAL LEAGUE EXCELLENCE AWARD FOR THE LIBRARIES ADOPT A GRANDPARENT PROGRAM. 
          AND THIS IS A, AN EXTREME HONOR THAT WE WERE ABLE TO ACHIEVE TWO YEARS IN A ROW. 
          IF YOU REMEMBER LAST YEAR WE DID IT FOR THE YELLOW DOT PROGRAM, BUT THE EXCELLENT EXCELLENCE AWARD REALLY HIGHLIGHTS THE BEST OF THE BEST IN THE CITY. 
          AND THE ADOPT A GRANDPARENT AWARD, IF YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT, IS KIND OF LIKE THE ANGEL TREE WHERE YOU ADOPT A GRANDPARENT AND, AND DEAL, UH, TAKE CARE OF THEM DURING CHRISTMAS WITH, UH, PRESENTS AND WHATNOT. 
          UH, WE DID HAVE SOME, SOME PROMOTIONS. 
          TARYN AND JEREMY PROMOTED FROM EMT TO PARAMEDIC ANTONIO ANTONIO WILSON PROMOTED FROM CERTIFIED HVAC TECH TO CONTRACTOR HVAC TECH AND PATRICK BUMAN, UH, PROMOTED FROM POLICE CADET TO POLICE OFFICER. 
          AND THAT ARE, THOSE ARE MY ANNOUNCEMENTS, MR. MAYOR. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU MR. WILLIAMS ANNOUNCEMENTS AND RECOGNITIONS BY THE MAYOR. 
          YOU KNOW, DURING THIS, UH, LAST TML CONFERENCE, UH, OUR COUNCIL MEMBER HAYWARD WAS NO LONGER THE TML PRESIDENT-ELECT. 
          SHE IS THE TML PRESIDENT FOR 20 24, 20 25. 
          CONGRATULATIONS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          NEXT IS, 
          [ Hearing of Residents This time is set aside for any person who wishes to address the City Council. Each person should fill out the speaker’s register prior to the meeting. Presentations should be limited to no more than 3 minutes.  All remarks shall be addressed to the Council as a body, and not to any individual member thereof. Any person making personal, impertinent, or slanderous remarks while addressing the Council may be requested to leave the meeting. All handouts and/or USB devices must be submitted to the City Secretary no later than noon on the Monday preceding the meeting.  Handouts will be provided to each Councilmember prior to the start of the meeting by the City Secretary.  All USB devices will be vetted by City IT staff to ensure City property is protected from malware. Discussion by the Council of any item not on the agenda shall be limited to statements of specific factual information given in response to any inquiry, a recitation of existing policy in response to an inquiry, and/or a proposal to place the item on a future agenda. The presiding officer, during the Hearing of Residents portion of the agenda, will call on those persons who have signed up to speak in the order they have registered.]
UH, NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS THE HEARING THE RESIDENCE. 
          THIS TIME IS SET ASIDE FOR ANY PERSON WHO WISHES TO ADDRESS THE CITY COUNCIL. 
          EACH PERSON IS LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES. 
          AND WE ASK BEFORE ADDRESSING THE COUNCIL FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS NOW. 
          WE DO HAVE TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS ON THE AGENDA TODAY. 
          AND YOU, IF YOU SIGNED UP, YOU DO HAVE AN OPTION YOU CAN SPEAK DURING THE HEARING, THE RESIDENCE. 
          HOLD OFF UNTIL THE PUBLIC HEARING OR SPEAK AT BOTH. 
          THE OPTION IS YOURS. 
          WITH THAT MAYOR PRO TEMP, PLEASE CALL OUR FIRST SPEAKER. 
          MAGGIE TITTERING. 
          GOOD EVENING COUNSEL MAYOR, MR. WILLIAMS, A FEW THINGS WE HAVE COMING UP. 
          WE HAVE OUR SHRED DAY THAT IS, UH, BEING PUT ON BY OUR YOUNG PROFESSIONALS HYPER GROUP. 
          IT'S THIS SATURDAY AT, UH, THE CHAMBER OFFICES IN SHIRTS, THE KRAMER HOUSE, THAT'S 1730 SHIRTS PARKWAY, AND IT'S FROM 9:00 AM TO 12:00 PM UH, YOU CAN BRING UP TO FIVE BOXES FULL OF PAPERS AND IT IS A FREE SHRED DAY. 
          BUT WE ARE DOING A SUGGESTED DONATION OF $5 BECAUSE WE'RE DOING A FUNDRAISER FOR RESCUE PETS, SERVING VETS, UM, VERY WORTHY CAUSE THAT, UH, NOT ONLY RESCUES ANIMALS BUT MATCHES THEM UP WITH VETS, UH, FOR COMFORT ANIMALS. 
          SO IF YOU ALL HAVE STUFF YOU NEED TO SHRED, PLEASE BRING IT OUT NINE TO 12 THIS SATURDAY. 
          ALSO, WE HAVE, UH, OUR LAST EPIC EDUCATION CLASS OF THE YEAR. 
          IT'S ON THE 30TH AT THE SHIRT CIVIC CENTER. 
          IT IS A SPEED BUSINESS EDUCATION CLASS. 
          SO THERE'S FIVE SPEAKERS, 25 MINUTES WORTH OF TOPIC, AND THEN A LAST ROUND TABLE SESSION OF ALL OF THEM. 
          LEMME SEE, I BROUGHT THIS UP ON MY PHONE. 
          UH, IT'S UNMASKING SUCCESS, TURNING IMPOSTER SYNDROME INTO A SUPERPOWER. 
          IMPOSTER SYNDROME, I GUESS IS A VERY HOT TOPIC RIGHT NOW. 
          UH, BUSINESS ETHICS, HOW TO STAY OUTTA JAIL. 
          WE ALL MUST KNOW THAT 10 MUST DOS FOR PAYROLL AND HR AND EMPLOYEE BENEFITS, UNLOCKING TEAMWORK AND SOCIAL MEDIA ESSENTIALS FOR SMALL BUSINESS GROWTH. 
          SO WE HAVE, UH, STARBUCKS AND RANDOLPH BROOKS FEDERAL CREDIT UNION THAT ARE SPONSORING THE BREAKFAST. 
          IT'S FROM EIGHT TO 11. 
          YOU CAN REGISTER ONLINE AT THE CHAMBER INFO. 
          AND THE LAST THING I HAVE IS, UH, WE'RE HAVING OUR LAST COFFEE AT THE CHAMBER OF THE YEAR, OCTOBER 25TH, 7:30 AM TO 9:00 AM SPONSORED BY COMMUNITY IMPACT NEWSPAPER. 
          AND IT'S JUST A COME AS YOU WANT. 
          UH, GET SOME FREE COFFEE AND TREATS AND VISIT WITH THE STAFF AND OTHER BUSINESS MEMBERS IN THE COMMUNITY. 
          AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          NEXT WE HAVE MARTHA AND LANE JOHNSON. 
          THEY WERE HERE EARLIER FOR THE SENTINEL AWARENESS. 
          OH, OKAY. 
          I DON'T THINK THEY'RE HERE. 
          IS THAT IT? CORRECT. 
          THAT'S IT, MAYOR. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU MAYOR PROTIME. 
          ALRIGHT, WE'LL MOVE ON. 
          UH, 
          [ Consent Agenda Items The Consent Agenda is considered self-explanatory and will be enacted by the Council with one motion. There will be no separate discussion of these items unless they are removed from the Consent Agenda upon the request of the Mayor or a Councilmember.]
CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS ARE CONSIDERED SELF-EXPLANATORY AND INFORMATION PACKETS ARE PROVIDED TO COUNCIL AND AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC VIEWING. 
          THESE ITEMS REQUIRE NO SEPARATE DISCUSSION UNLESS REQUESTED BY COUNSEL. 
          ITEM NUMBER ONE, MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 17TH AND SEPTEMBER 24TH. 
          ITEM NUMBER TWO, APPOINTMENTS, REAPPOINTMENTS AND RES RESIGNATIONS CITY ASSURES, BOARDS, COMMISSIONS, AND COMMITTEES. 
          ITEM NUMBER THREE, RESOLUTION NUMBER 24 ARE 1 39. 
          ITEM NUMBER FOUR, RESOLUTION NUMBER 24 R 1 28. 
          ITEM NUMBER FIVE, RESOLUTION NUMBER 24 R 1 38. 
          ITEM NUMBER SIX, RESOLUTION NUMBER 24 R 1 0 1. 
          ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, RESOLUTION NUMBER 24 R 82. 
          ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, RESOLUTION NUMBER 24 R 1 35. 
          [00:50:01]
AND ITEM NUMBER NINE, RESOLUTION NUMBER 24 R 1 36. 
          COUNSEL, DO ANY OF THESE NEED TO RE BE REMOVED FOR A SEPARATE ACTION? SEE, NO COMMENT. 
          IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS ONE THROUGH NINE. 
          SO MOVE SECOND. 
          MOTION MADE BY COUNCIL MEMBER WATSON AND SECOND BY COUNCIL MEMBER HAYWARD. 
          ANY COMMENTS? NONE. 
          COUNCIL, PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE. 
          WE CAN PUBLISH THE VOTE PLEASE. 
          WE HAVE SIX YAYS. 
          NO OBJECTION. 
          MOTION PASSES. 
          NEXT ITEM, DISCUSSION 
          [10.  Resolution 24-R-131- Authorizing a resolution accepting a petition for voluntary annexation of approximately 3.014-acres, known as a portion of Comal County Property Identification Number 79004 Comal County, Texas (B.James/L.Wood/E.Delgado)]
AND ACTION ITEMS. RESOLUTION NUMBER 24 R 1 31 AUTHORIZING A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING A PETITION FOR VOLUNTARY ANNEXATION OF APPROXIMATELY 3.014 ACRES KNOWN AS A PORTION OF COMAL COUNTY PROPERTY IDENTIFICATION NUMBER 7 9 0 0 4 COMAL COUNTY, TEXAS. 
          MS. DELGADO FLOOR IS YOURS. 
          GOOD EVENING, MAYOR. 
          COUNSEL, THIS IS FOR RESOLUTION 24 R 1 31, ACCEPTING A PETITION OF VOLUNTARY ANNEXATION FOR 3.014 ACRES. 
          EMILY DELGADO, PLANNING MANAGER. 
          SO AS WE ALL REMEMBER THE THE LOVELY MEETINGS IN JULY OF THIS YEAR, WE APPROVED ORDINANCES TO ANNEX OVER 3000 ACRES INTO THE CITY ASSURES BASED ON EXPIRING DELAYED ANNEXATION DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS. 
          AS PART OF THAT PROCESS, COLEMAN COUNTY PROPERTY IDENTIFICATION NUMBER 7 9 0 0 4 7 9 0 0 6 AND 7 9 0 0 9 OWNED BY TIMOTHY AND CHARLENE V WERE SCHEDULED TO BE ANNEXED AND ZONED. 
          HOWEVER, AS PART OF THAT ANNEXATION EFFORT, CITY COUNCIL APPROVE RESOLUTION 24 R 81, WHICH AUTHORIZED THE APPROVAL OF A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH THAT PROPERTY OWNER WHO OWNS APPROXIMATELY 100.535 ACRES OF PROPERTY, OF WHICH APPROXIMATELY ONE ACRE IS UTILIZED AS THEIR HOMESTEAD AND THE REMAINDER IS FOR AGRICULTURAL PURPOSES. 
          AS PART OF THAT AGREEMENT, THE PROPERTY OWNER AUTHORIZED THE ANNEXATION OF THE AGRICULTURAL LAND WHILE THE RESIDENTIAL LAND WAS TO REMAIN IN THE ETJ. 
          BASED ON THAT AGREEMENT AT THE JULY 16TH CITY COUNCIL MEETING. 
          RESOLUTION 24, UM, IN ADDITION TO APPROVING RESOLUTION 24 R 81, UH, ORDINANCES, 24, A 49, AND A 50 ANNEX KAMEL COUNTY PROPERTY ID 7 9 0 0 6 AND 7 9 0 0 9. 
          HOWEVER, 7 9 0 0 4 IS THE PORTION OF THE PROPERTY THAT IS UTILIZED FOR RESIDENTIAL PURPOSES. 
          IT'S APPROXIMATELY FOUR ACRES, BUT ONLY ONE ACRE OF THAT IS ACTUALLY UTILIZED FOR RESIDENTIAL. 
          THE REMAINING 3.014 IS UTILIZED FOR AGRICULTURAL PURPOSES AND BASED ON THE AGREEMENT THAT CITY COUNCIL AUTHORIZED, THE AGRICULTURAL PROPERTY IS PROPOSED TO BE ANNEXED RESOLUTION 24 R 1 31 IS THAT FIRST CITY COUNCIL STEP, UH, ACCEPTING THE ANNEXATION PETITION TONIGHT IS NOT THE ACTUAL ANNEXATION OF THE PROPERTY. 
          IT'S JUST THAT FIRST STEP IN THE SERIES OF THE ANNEXATION PROCESS. 
          SO TO GET YOUR BEARINGS HERE IS FM 4 82. 
          YOU'LL SEE THE GRAY PROPERTIES ARE ALREADY IN THE CITY LIMITS. 
          THE FIVE PROPERTY HERE WAS ANNEXED WITH THAT GROUP IN JULY. 
          HOWEVER, 7 9 0 0 4, WHICH IS THIS SQUARE, IS PART OF THE PROPERTY THAT WAS PART OF THAT DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. 
          THE WHITE IS WHERE THEIR ACTUAL RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE IS, THE ONE ACRE AND THEN THE GREEN PORTION, 3.014 ACRE IS WHAT IS PROPOSED TO START THE ANNEXATION PROCESS. 
          TONIGHT, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF RESOLUTION 24 R 1 31 TO ACCEPT A PETITION FOR VOLUNTARY ANNEXATION OF APPROXIMATELY 3.014 ACRES WITHIN KMEL COUNTY, MORE SPECIFICALLY KNOWN AS A PORTION OF KMEL COUNTY PROPERTY IDENTIFICATION NUMBER 7 9 0 0 4. 
          THANK YOU MS. DELGADO. 
          ALL RIGHT, COUNSEL FLOOR'S OPEN FOR, UH, DISCUSSION THERE. 
          NO DISCUSSION. 
          IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE 24 R? SO MOVE 1 31 SECOND. 
          YES, I, YES. 
          UH, I HAVEN'T HEARD A SECOND. 
          OH, HE DIDN'T. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          I DIDN'T HEAR IT. 
          OKAY. 
          WE HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCIL MEMBER WATSON SECOND BY COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN. 
          ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? COUNCIL, PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE. 
          WE CAN PUBLISH THE VOTE, PLEASE. 
          WE HAVE SIX YAYS. 
          NO OBJECTION. 
          MOTION PASSES. 
          NEXT ITEM, RESOLUTION NUMBER 24 R 
          [11.  Resolution 24-R-137 - Authorizing a Contract with Axon Enterprises for the Purchase of a Video Recording System for the Schertz Police Department Interview and Intoxilyzer Rooms. (S.Williams/J.Lowery)]
1 37. 
          AUTHORIZED AUTHORIZING A CONTRACT WITH AOX UH, ENTERPRISES FOR THE PURCHASE OF VIDEO RECORDING SYSTEM FOR THE SHEZ POLICE DEPARTMENT. 
          INTERVIEW ANDIC INTOXILYZER ROOMS. OKAY, CHIEF FLOOR IS YOURS. 
          GOOD EVENING. 
          I'M JIM MEYER, YOUR POLICE CHIEF. 
          GOOD EVENING MAYOR COUNCIL AND MR. WILLIAMS. TONIGHT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 
          [00:55:01]
24 R 1 37. 
          IT'S AUTHORIZING A CONTRACT WITH AXON ENTERPRISES FOR THE PURCHASE OF A VIDEO RECORDING SYSTEM FOR THE CHURCH POLICE DEPARTMENT, INTERVIEW ROOM AND INTERVIEW ROOM AND TOXILYZER ROOMS. CITY COUNCIL APPROVED A RESOLUTION 23 R ONE 11 ON OCTOBER 10TH, 2023 THAT AUTHORIZED THE EXPENDER WITH, UH, EXPENDITURES WITH AXON, UH, ENTERPRISES TO PURCHASE NEW BODY-WORN CAMERAS. 
          OUR, UH, NCAR VIDEO CAMERAS AND TASER REPLACEMENTS. 
          THE SEARCH POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS ALSO IDENTIFIED THE NEED TO REPLACE OUTDATED RECORDING SYSTEM, WHICH WAS WATCHGUARD IN THE INTERVIEW. 
          AND TOXILIZER ROOM STAFF RECOMMENDS, UH, THE CONTRACTING WITH AXON ENTERPRISE, A BUYBOARD CO COOPERATIVE VENDOR FOR A NEW VIDEO RECORDING SYSTEM. 
          AXON INTERVIEW SOLUTIONS ENABLES AN AGENCY TO RECORD VIDEO AND WITNESS SUSPECT INTERVIEWS, ADD DESCRIPTIVE METADATA AND AUTOMATICALLY TRANSFER TO THE AXON EVIDENCE.COM. 
          IT OFFERS ROBUST SECURITY FEATURES AND COMPREHENSIVE PLATFORM TO SUPPORT AND PROVIDE CRUCIAL AND DEFENSIBLE EVIDENCE FOR PROSECUTION. 
          THE CITY'S, UH, FISCAL IMPACT WILL BE $52,556 AND 55 CENTS. 
          THIS PROJECT WAS BUDGETED FOR THE PHYSICAL YEAR, UH, 20 23 24. 
          AND STAFF WILL INCLUDE THIS ITEM IN THE NEXT BUDGET ADJUSTMENT BROUGHT BEFORE COUNSEL TO MOVE ANY UNUSED FUNDS INTO THE NEW FISCAL YEAR. 
          DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? ALRIGHT, THANK YOU CHIEF. 
          ALRIGHT, COUNCIL FLOORS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. 
          I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION 24 R 1 37. 
          SECOND MOTIONS BEEN MADE BY COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN. 
          SECOND BY COUNCIL MEMBER WATSON COUNCIL. 
          ANY OTHER COMMENTS? PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE. 
          WE CAN PUBLISH THE VOTE, PLEASE. 
          WE HAVE SIX AYES. 
          NO OBJECTION. 
          MOTION PASSES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          HAVE A GOOD EVENING. 
          THANK YOU. 
          NEXT ITEM, RESOLUTION NUMBER 24 
          [12.  Resolution 24-R-142 - A resolution by the City Council to amend the Fee Schedule (S. Gonzalez/J. Walters)]
R 1 42. 
          A RESOLUTION BY THE CITY COUNCIL TO AMEND THE FEE SCHEDULE. 
          MR. WALTERS. 
          GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. 
          MY NAME IS JAMES WALTERS. 
          I'M THE FINANCE DIRECTOR FOR THE CITY OF SHIRTZ. 
          IN REVIEWING THE FEE SCHEDULE, GETTING READY TO IMPLEMENT THE NEW FEES FOR THE WATER AND SEWER RATES, STAFF FOUND THAT IN AN EFFORT TO SIMPLIFY THE FEE SCHEDULE TO CLOSELY MORE ALIGNED WITH THE CURRENT METER SIZES, UH, WE HAD ACCIDENTALLY REMOVED THE WRONG SIZE, UH, RATE FROM THE TABLE. 
          UM, UPON FURTHER REVIEW, THERE'S ABOUT, UH, NINE CUSTOMERS, UM, THAT WE WOULD ADJUST THE RATES FOR GOING FORWARD, GETTING RID OF THE LARGER METER RATE FOR SOME AND OTHERS LEAVING THEM WHERE THEY ARE. 
          UM, THIS IS BASICALLY WHAT THE 2324 SHOWED FOR THE CORRECT SIZE. 
          THIS IS WHAT WE ORIGINALLY ADOPTED. 
          AND THEN THIS IS ACTUAL THE PROPOSED, THE 2% INCREASE THIS. 
          SO YOU SEE THAT WE DON'T WANNA ACTUALLY CHARGE ABOUT 2000 CUSTOMERS, UM, THIS LARGE MONTHLY AMOUNT, THIS IS THE BASE FEES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, THE PER THOUSAND GALLON FEES WERE WERE ACCURATE. 
          UM, BUT WHAT THIS WILL DO IS IT'LL ACTUALLY TAKE, UM, THOSE NINE CUSTOMERS AND ACTUALLY GIVE THEM A LOWER RATE, UH, WHICH COULD BE AN, UH, ANNUAL LOSS OF THE CITY, ABOUT $9,600. 
          UM, BY DOING SO, UH, WE BELIEVE THIS IS THE BEST COURSE OF OPTION, UH, BEST COURSE FOR THE CITY OF SHIRTS. 
          IF WE WERE TO TAKE ALL OF THE OTHER BUSINESSES, WHICH ARE THE VAST MAJORITY, NOT JUST THE NINE, BUT THE OTHER 2000 ALMOST, UH, WE COULD THEN COMPARE TO SEE IF THEY CLOSELY ALIGN MORE CLOSELY ALIGNED WITH THE WATER USAGE RATE. 
          IT WAS CLOSE TO THE 210 LEVEL OR CLOSER TO THE ALMOST $300 LEVEL, AND THEN GO THROUGH AND SWAP OUT THEIR METER AND, AND, AND DO THAT. 
          UM, STAFF DOESN'T BELIEVE THAT'S, UH, UH, WORTH IT IN THE LONG RUN. 
          AND WE WOULD TAKE THE, UH, METER SIZES BACK ON THE BASE FEES BACK TO THE NEXT, UH, UH, FIVE YEAR RATE PLAN AND, AND DOUBLE CHECK THAT WE ARE STILL WITHIN THE ROUND, UH, THE, THE, THE REALM OF ACCURACY ON WHAT WE SHOULD BE CHARGING FOR OUR BASE FEES. 
          AGAIN, THIS WON'T CHANGE REALLY. 
          THE, THIS WON'T HAVE NO MATERIAL IMPACT ON THE ANNUAL FORECAST OR, OR WHAT'S BEING CHARGED WITH THOSE, UH, CUSTOMERS. 
          UM, AND I DIDN'T TOUCH ON IT IN THE BEGINNING, BUT, UH, SORT OF THE BIG, UM, ISSUE THAT KIND OF CAUSED BEFORE THE METER SWAP OUT, THE BIG ONE WE CHANGED TO THE NEW METER TYPES. 
          WE HAD, UM, TWO TYPES OF EACH OF THESE METERS. 
          UH, UM, A TWO INCH COMPOUND AND A TWO INCH TURBINE. 
          LET'S SAY, UH, THE COMPOUND HAD ALLOWED FOR LESS FLOW, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS THE SAME SIZE, THE TURBINE HAD HIGHER FLOW, WHICH MEANS THEY COULD USE MORE WATER. 
          UH, BUT IT WAS STILL LIKE THE TWO INCH DIAMETER, UM, WE SWAPPED OUT AND WE WENT TO THE NEW METERS. 
          UH, WE GOT RID OF ALL OF THOSE, UM, UH, TURBINES AND KEPT THE COMPOUNDS, WHICH IS THE LOWER ONES, BUT THE NEW METERS. 
          SO WE HAD JUST ONE TWO INCH METER NOW, NOW THE METERS ACTUALLY ADDED FOR A HIGHER FLOW, UM, 
          [01:00:01]
MORE CLOSELY LINKED TO THE TURBINES, UH, WHICH IS WHY THE, THE FEE SCHEDULE KIND OF GOT, UH, ADJUSTED, PROPOSED THE WAY IT WAS ORIGINALLY. 
          UM, BUT LOOKING AT THE ACTUAL USAGE BY, UH, CUSTOMER CLASS AND WHAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE LOOKING AT, UH, THIS ONLY TALKING ABOUT NINE, UM, CORPORATIONS IN THE CITY OF CHURCHS THAT, UH, WOULD BE AFFECTED BY THIS PROPOSED CHANGE. 
          UM, THAT'S FAIRLY QUICK, BUT IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OVER, UH, SPECIFICS WITH THE PROPOSED RATE CHANGE, I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER 'EM. 
          ALRIGHT, THANK YOU MR. WALTERS. 
          ALL RIGHT, COUNSEL FLOORS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. 
          SEE NONE. 
          IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION 24 R 1 42. 
          SO MOVE SECOND. 
          HAVE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILMAN M LUSO. 
          SECOND BY COUNCIL MEMBER WATSON. 
          ANY OTHER COMMENTS? PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE. 
          WE CAN PUBLISH THE VOTE PLEASE. 
          WE HAVE SIX YAYS. 
          NO OBJECTION MOTIONS. 
          MOTION PASSES. 
          ALRIGHT, NEXT ITEM, 
          [13.  Resolution 24-R-140 - Authorizing a construction contract with R.L. Jones LP for the 2024 SPAM Resurfacing Project (B.James/K.Woodlee/J.Nowak)]
ITEM NUMBER 13, RESOLUTION NUMBER 24 R ONE 40 AUTHORIZING A CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT WITH RL JONES LP FOR THE 2024 SPAN RESURFACING PROJECT. 
          MS. WOODLEY FLOOR IS YOURS. 
          GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNSEL, KATHY WOODLEY, CITY ENGINEER. 
          UH, WHILE I'M PINCHING FOR JOHN NOACK THIS EVENING, AND BRIAN REMINDED ME THAT JOHN ALWAYS STARTS WITH A JOKE. 
          VERY SORRY, I DID NOT PREPARE WELL ENOUGH. 
          I DON'T HAVE A JOKE. 
          YOU'LL HAVE TO WAIT TILL THE NEXT TIME JOHN'S HERE. 
          UM, BUT I'LL TRY NOT TO BE TOO SUPER DRY. 
          SO WHAT THIS IS IS THIS IS THE, UM, NEXT GROUP OF PROJECTS FOR THE, UM, STREET PRESERVATION AND MAINTENANCE WORK THAT WE DO. 
          AND THIS IS A RESURFACING, UH, WHICH INVOLVES BASE REPAIR OF SOME AREAS OF THE STREETS THAT ARE SELECTED AND THEN A SLURRY SEAL OVER THE ENTIRE AREA. 
          UH, WE BID THE PROJECT AND WE HAD ORIGINALLY HOPED TO HAVE THE CONSTRUCTION OF THIS DONE. 
          PRIOR TO THIS NEW FISCAL YEAR STARTING, WE HAD, UH, I THINK 2.154 MILLION BUDGETED FOR IT. 
          UH, AND WE BID OUT WORK SLIGHTLY IN EXCESS OF THAT. 
          WE USUALLY DO THAT JUST IN CASE WE GET GREAT, UH, COSTS COMING BACK AND WE CAN, WE CAN, UH, STRETCH OUR DOLLARS FURTHER. 
          BUT THE COST CAME IN FAIRLY WELL, BUT SLIGHTLY OVER THAT INITIAL ESTIMATE. 
          BUT BECAUSE WE'RE IN THE NEW FISCAL YEAR, WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO IS A, A COUPLE THINGS. 
          WE'RE GONNA TAKE ADVANTAGE OF SOME SAVINGS FROM THE LAST SPAM RESURFACING PROJECT THAT WE HAD. 
          I THINK WE WERE ABLE TO, UM, PUT TOGETHER 62,000 THAT WAS SAVED THERE. 
          AND WE'RE GONNA DIP INTO THIS FISCAL YEAR'S, UH, STREETS DEPARTMENT, UH, OUTSOURCED MAINTENANCE FUNDS THAT IS DEDICATED TO SPAM FOR THESE SORTS OF, UH, OF PROJECTS, UH, SO THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISH ALL OF THE STREETS THAT WE HAD HOPED THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO. 
          SO THE LIST OF OF THE AREAS, KENSINGTON RANCH, SAVANNAH BLUFF RIDGE AT SCENIC HILLS, FAIRHAVEN MOBILE, VILLA ESTATES, ENGLEWOOD, A R LANE, HALLEY'S COVE AND LONGLEAF PARKWAY. 
          UH, AND ALSO SHIRTZ PARKWAY WILL BE RESURFACED FROM WOODLAND OAKS ALL THE WAY TO 35. 
          SO THEN WITH THE RECENT WORK THAT'S BEEN DONE IN THE PAST FEW YEARS, UH, SHIRTZ PARKWAY WILL BE IN GREAT SHAPE. 
          UH, SO WE ARE ASKING THAT YOU AUTHORIZE THE CITY MANAGER TO EXECUTE THE CONTRACT WITH RL JONES FOR APPROXIMATELY 2.3 MILLION AND NOT TO EXCEED OF 2.4 MILLION TO GET THESE AREAS RESURFACED. 
          ALRIGHT, THANK YOU MS. WOODLEY. 
          COUNSEL FLOOR'S OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. 
          SEE NONE. 
          IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION NUMBER 24 R ONE 40? SO MOVE SECOND. 
          HAVE MOTION MADE BY WATSON. 
          SECOND BY COUNCIL MEMBER HAYWARD. 
          ANY OTHER COMMENTS? COUNCIL, PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE. 
          WE CAN PUBLISH THE VOTE, PLEASE. 
          WE HAVE SIX AYES. 
          NO OBJECTION. 
          MOTION PASSES. 
          NEXT ITEM, 
          [14.  Ordinance 24-S-155 - Conduct a public hearing and consider amendments to Part III of the Schertz Code of Ordinances, Unified Development Code (UDC), to Article 4 - Procedures and Applications, and Article 5 - Zoning Districts First Reading (B.James/L.Wood/S.Haas)  ]
WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING. 
          ORDINANCE NUMBER 24 S 1 55. 
          CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING AND CONSIDER AMENDMENTS TO PART THREE OF THE CHURCH'S CODE OF ORDINANCES, UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE UDC TO ARTICLE FOUR PROCEDURES AND APPLICATIONS AND ARTICLE FIVE ZONING DISTRICTS. 
          THIS IS OUR FIRST READING, MR. HAAS FLOOR IS YOURS. 
          THANK YOU MAYOR COUNCIL MR. WILLIAMS, ORDINANCE 24 S 1 55 UDC AMENDMENTS TO ARTICLE FOUR AND ARTICLE FIVE, SAMUEL HAAS, SENIOR PLANNER. 
          SO THE BACKGROUND FOR THIS, UM, EVERY TIME WE PRESENT A ZONE CHANGE OR A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT OR UDC AMENDMENTS, AT THE END OF OUR PRESENTATION, WE ALWAYS KIND OF READ THROUGH THIS ENUMERATED LIST OF CRITERIA. 
          YOU KNOW, IT'S OUR FAVORITE PART OF EVERY PRESENTATION I'M 
          [01:05:01]
SURE. 
          UM, AND SO AS STAFF HAS BEEN USING THESE OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS AND WE'VE KIND OF REALIZED THAT AS OUR CITY PRACTICES HAVE BEEN UPDATED, WE KIND OF NEED TO UPDATE SOME OF THE LANGUAGES IN THIS AS WELL. 
          UH, WE DID SOME, UH, TARGET CITY RESEARCH AS WELL TO KIND OF SEE HOW EVERYBODY ELSE IS DOING THINGS IN TEXAS AND UM, AND WE DECIDED TO USE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF MODERNIZE SOME OF THE LANGUAGE AND TO STREAMLINE IT AND SIMPLIFY IT A LITTLE BIT FOR, UM, FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE READING OUR UDC. 
          SO TO START OFF, WE'RE DOING THIS IN FOUR SECTIONS. 
          AND TO START OFF WITH, THE FIRST ONE WE'RE PROPOSING IS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENTS. 
          UM, ON THE LEFT SIDE AS I'M GOING THROUGH THIS, YOU'LL SEE THE CURRENT TEXT AND ON THE RIGHT SIDE YOU'LL SEE THE PROPOSED, UH, WHEN YOU SEE A STRIKE THROUGH IS WHAT'S CURRENTLY THERE THAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO, UH, ELIMINATE. 
          AND ANYTHING IN RED IS JUST LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE ADDING. 
          SO AS YOU SEE THROUGH NUMBER ONE HERE, YOU SEE THAT WE STROKE THROUGH A SAFE, ORDERLY, AND EFFICIENT HELPFUL DEVELOPMENT STAFF. 
          FELT THIS WAS A LITTLE REDUNDANT. 
          THERE'S ALREADY HEALTH AND SAFETY IN THIS SENTENCE. 
          UH, JUST THOUGHT THAT JUST FOR THE SAKE OF BREVITY, JUST KIND OF ELIMINATING IT AND MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE CLEAR. 
          UH, ALSO YOU'LL SEE THAT WE'VE KIND OF ELIMINATED SOME LANGUAGE AS WELL, THE TAKING INTO ACCOUNT PROPOSED MAP AMENDMENTS AND THESE ARE KIND OF SELF-EXPLANATORY. 
          AND THEN WHEN WE'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY, WE COMBINE TWO AND FOUR AND WE'VE DONE THIS IN OTHER SECTIONS AS WELL, WHICH I'LL KIND OF TOUCH ON IN A MINUTE. 
          BUT WE'VE COMBINED TWO AND FOUR AND JUST ADDED GOALS AND OBJECTIVES TO NUMBER TWO. 
          AND THEN THE LAST THING THAT WE REALLY TOUCHED ON THIS ONE IS, UH, ON THE CURRENT TEXT, YOU'LL SEE ON NUMBER SIX IT SAYS OTHER CRITERIA WHICH AT THE DISCRETION OF PLANNING AND ZONING AND CITY COUNCIL ARE DEEMED RELEVANT. 
          UH, STAFF CHANGE THAT LANGUAGE IS PROPOSING TO CHANGE THAT LANGUAGE TO FACTORS WHICH ARE DEEMED RELEVANT. 
          SO NOT HAVING THE DISCRETION OF CITY COUNCIL JUST KIND OF BROADENING THE DEFINITION OF THAT CRITERIA, ALLOWING FOR OTHER THINGS TO BE CONSIDERED MOVING ON. 
          UH, NEXT IS THE, UH, UDC AMENDMENTS 21 4 7 D. 
          SO KIND OF SIM SOME OF THE SIMILAR, UH, CHANGES HERE. 
          JUST KINDA STREAMLINING SOME OF THE LANGUAGE ON NUMBER ONE, UH, COMBINING TWO AND THREE WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE, UH, CONSISTENT WITH GOALS AND OBJECTIVES AND POLICIES. 
          UH, ALSO ADDING NUMBER THREE, WE DO THIS A LOT FOR OUR UDC AMENDMENTS. 
          SO STAFF IS PROPOSING THE, TO ADD THIS IN RED HERE ON NUMBER THREE, THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT CORRECTS AN ERROR, MEETS THE CHALLENGE OF CHANGING CONDITIONS OR IS IN RESPONSE TO CHANGES IN STATE LAW. 
          UH, WE, EVERY TWO YEARS WE SEEM TO BE UPDATING THE UDC WITH SOMETHING THAT THE STATE, UH, IS MAKING US DO. 
          SO WE THOUGHT WE'D ADD THAT IN THERE AS PART OF OUR CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL. 
          AND AGAIN, UH, ON NUMBER FOUR, JUST CHANGE THAT LANGUAGE TO FACTORS INSTEAD OF CRITERIA. 
          SO IN THE NEXT TWO, SO THE ZONE CHANGE, UH, 21 5 4 D, THIS IS WHERE WE DO THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL HERE. 
          WE MADE A LOT OF CHANGES HERE. 
          UM, THERE'S EIGHT CRITERIA CURRENTLY AND WE STAFF IS PROPOSING TO, UH, SIMPLIFY THAT DOWN TO FOUR. 
          AND A LOT OF THAT, UM, WHAT YOU'LL SEE IS, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE SIM SIMILAR CHANGES HERE, UM, THAT WE FELT WERE REDUNDANT. 
          THE ZONING MAP AMENDMENT LANGUAGE, WHICH WE'LL KIND OF TOUCH ON LANGUAGE, UH, LATER THAT WE KIND OF ELIMINATED THERE. 
          FOUR, FIVE, AND SIX. 
          UM, A LOT OF THIS WE TOUCH ON LATER STAGES IN THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS AND THE PLATING TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S ADEQUATE SEWER CAPACITY AND ROADS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          UM, DID NOT DECIDED TO, TO PROPOSE TO ELIMINATE THE ERROR IN ORIGINAL ZONING, UH, AS A CRITERIA. 
          I THINK THAT WOULD BE KINDA SELF-EXPLANATORY. 
          THAT'S WHY THEY'RE DOING IT. 
          THE BACK TAXES THING AS WELL, I'LL TOUCH ON THAT IN A MINUTE. 
          I THINK THAT IT GOES BACK TO A PREVIOUS CITY CHARTER. 
          UM, NOT CERTAIN ON THAT, BUT THAT'S KIND OF, DID SOME DETECTIVE WORK ON THAT. 
          AND I'LL KIND OF EXPLAIN THAT IN A MINUTE. 
          BUT THE ZONING MAP AMENDMENT, JUST SO I CAN DO ELIMINATE THAT ALTOGETHER BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT WAS A HOLDOVER FROM A PREVIOUS TIME WHEN THE MAPS AND THE ZONE CHANGES WEREN'T, UH, UPDATED AT THE SAME TIME. 
          BUT WE HAVE NEW TECHNOLOGY NOW. 
          WE HAVE A WHOLE GIS DEPARTMENTS THAT WHEN A ZONE CHANGES IS APPROVED, ESSENTIALLY IT GETS CHANGED THE VERY NEXT MORNING WHEN STAFF COMES TO THE OFFICE. 
          SO THAT IS A BIT, UH, UNNECESSARY TO HAVE A ZONING MAP AMENDMENT BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS GONNA HAPPEN WITH A CHANGE. 
          NOW THIS BACK TAXES THING THAT'S CURRENTLY IN THERE, AGAIN, UNSURE WHY THAT'S IN THERE. 
          EVERY TIME WE GET UP HERE, WE ALWAYS SAY THIS IS NOT A FACTOR FOR CONSIDERATION. 
          SO STAFF IS PROPOSING TO JUST ELIMINATE THAT CRITERIA ALTOGETHER. 
          NEAREST WE COULD TELL IS THERE WAS THIS LANGUAGE IN THE 20 12 20 13 CHARTER ABOUT ASSESSING TAXES AND WHEN TO COLLECT 'EM IN THE 2015 CHARTER THAT GOT SCRAPPED. 
          SO MAYBE COULD BE A HOLDOVER FROM THAT TIME. 
          WE'RE UNSURE, BUT JUST THOUGHT I'D THROW THAT OUT THERE. 
          THE NEXT SECTION IS SPECIFIC USE PERMIT. 
          UH, AND THIS IS DIRECTLY AS A RESULT OF, UH, A CHANGE IN CITY PRACTICE. 
          WE DECIDED SOME TIME AGO THAT, WELL, I, I SHOULD BACK UP AND 
          [01:10:01]
SAY THAT WE USED TO, WHEN PEOPLE WOULD, UH, APPLY FOR A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT, MAKE 'EM DO THE WHOLE SITE PLAN PROCESS. 
          SO SITE PLAN, LANDSCAPE PLAN, TREE, TREE MITIGATION PLAN, STORM WATER MANAGEMENT PLAN, TRAFFIC ANALYSIS, AND APPLICANTS WERE PUTTING IN ALL THIS TIME AND EFFORT AND MONEY AND THEN ESSENTIALLY GETTING DENIED. 
          AND SO SOMETIME AGO, UH, YOU KNOW, THE CITY DECIDED THAT WE WEREN'T GONNA MAKE 'EM DO THAT WHOLE PROCESS. 
          AND A LOT OF THIS CRITERIA KIND OF PERTAINS TO THAT PROCESS. 
          SO THE REASON WHY YOU'LL SEE A LOT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE PROPOSING TO ELIMINATE QUITE A FEW. 
          THERE'S 10 IN TOTAL AND WE'RE SHRINKING THAT DOWN TO FIVE. 
          AND IT'S SIMILAR, YOU KNOW, UM, WHERE WE'RE ABLE TO COMBINE THINGS. 
          WE DID, UH, WE ADDED, UH, THIS, UM, NUMBER THREE HERE. 
          THE PROPOSED USE IS COMPATIBLE WITH AND PRESERVES THE CHARACTER AND INTEGRITY OF ADJACENT DEVELOPMENTS. 
          THAT'S ESSENTIALLY REWORDING A COUPLE OF THESE AND COMBINING 'EM INTO ONE. 
          UM, NUMBER FOUR, YOU'LL SEE THE PROPOSED USE WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT THE OVERALL HEALTH, SAFETY AND GENERAL WELFARE OF THE CITY. 
          AS I'M SURE YOU GUYS, Y'ALL KNOW THAT WHEN WE HAVE SPECIFIC USE PERMITS, THEY ARE, UH, CONSIDERED SPECIAL AND THEN WE NEED A SPECIAL CONSIDERATION. 
          AND I THINK THE ADVERSE EFFECT ONE KIND OF IS EMBLEMATIC OF THAT CONSIDERATION. 
          AND THEN NUMBER FIVE, AGAIN, THE CHANGING THAT LANGUAGE TO THE FACTORS LANGUAGE. 
          AND SO YOU'LL SEE THAT WE WENT FROM 10 CRITERIA ON SPECIFIC USE, ONE DOWN TO FIVE. 
          SO, UH, AS AS ALWAYS, WE READ THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL. 
          AND WHEN WE'RE ANA MAKING OUR ANALYSIS, WE, UM, DO THE 21 4 7 DUDC AMENDMENTS. 
          UH, IT'S KIND OF A, IT'S FUNNY 'CAUSE WE'RE DOING CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL. 
          CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL, BUT I'LL JUST READ THESE OFF ONE AT A TIME. 
          THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT PROMOTES HEALTH, SAFETY AND GENERAL WAY FOR THE CITY AND THE SAFE, ORDERLY, EFFICIENT, HEALTHFUL DEVELOPMENT OF THE CITY. 
          SO THE UDC DOES FUNCTION BETTER WHEN IT MATCHES CURRENT CITY PRACTICES. 
          IT'S BETTER FOR RESIDENTS, INSUREDS, APPLICANTS AND STAFF. 
          WHEN THERE'S CONTINUITY AND CLARITY IN THE UDC AND STREAMLINING OUR, OUR CRITERIA APPROVAL WILL ASSIST IN WITH THAT ORDERLY AND EFFICIENT DEVELOPMENT. 
          AN AMENDMENT TO THE TEXT IS CONSISTENT WITH OTHER POLICIES WITH THE UDC. 
          MANY OF THESE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS ARE REFLECTIVE OF CHANGES IN THE CITY CHARTER, ADOPTED ORDINANCES OR UPDATED CITY PRACTICES. 
          THESE AMENDMENTS ARE ALSO CONSISTENT WITH THESE AMENDMENTS AS A RESULT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE POLICY OF THE UDC AND THE CITIES. 
          ANY PROPOSED AMENDMENT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES OF THE UDC IN THIS, IN THE CITY. 
          I'D LIKE TO BRING IN THE STRATEGIC PLAN HERE WHEN IT'S STATED. 
          GOALS FOR OPERATIONAL VALUES OF THE CITY IS TO BE PROACTIVE. 
          BEING PROACTIVE MEANS INITIATING CHANGE BY ANTICIPATING FUTURE SITUATIONS IN ORDER TO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN. 
          IT'S ALSO THE RESPONSIBILITY OF STAFF TO BE CONTINUOUSLY IMPROVING AND INVOLVING AND FORWARD THINKING. 
          THESE AMENDMENTS WOULD ACHIEVE THESE GOALS IN THE STRATEGIC PLAN. 
          AND THEN FOUR OTHER CRITERIA, WHICH HAVE THE DISCRETION OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION ARE DEEMED RELEVANT AND IMPORTANT IN CONSIDERATION FOR THE AMENDMENT. 
          STAFF HAS RECEIVED NO SPECIAL CONSIDERATION, AND THIS PUBLIC HEARING PROVIDES THE OPPORTUNITY FOR CITY COUNCIL TO DETERMINE THIS. 
          THESE AMENDMENTS ALIGN WITH THE GOALS, OBJECTIONS, AND POLICY OF THE UDC STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF 24 S 1 55, AND ON SEPTEMBER 4TH, UH, 2024, THAT PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION HELD A PUBLIC HEARING AND RECOMMEND APPROVAL WITH A SIX TO ZERO VOTE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU, MR. HAAS. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          THIS ITEM IS ON THE AGENDA AS AN OPEN PUBLIC HEARING. 
          IS THERE ANYONE IN ATTENDANCE WHO WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE CITY COUNCIL IN REFERENCE TO THIS SUBJECT? PERMIT TO THREE MINUTES. 
          AND WE ASK, BEFORE YOU ADDRESS THE COUNCIL, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. 
          NO ONE'S MOVING FORWARD GOING ONCE, GOING TWICE. 
          PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          COUNSEL FLOORS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER WATSON I MOTION WE APPROVE ORDINANCE 24 S 1 55. 
          THERE A SECOND. 
          SECOND, SECOND. 
          THAT COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN. 
          OKAY. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UH, COUNCIL MEMBER WESTBROOK, YOU HAD, UH, COMMENTS? YES. 
          DEFINITION OF ADVERSELY IMPACT? YEAH, SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO ADVERSELY EFFECT. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          ADVERSE EFFECT. 
          THE OVERALL, SO I THINK WHEN WE'RE, JUST TO KIND OF MAKE IT PRESCIENT A GAS STATION, RIGHT? YOU KNOW, IS THIS GAS STATION GONNA ADVERSELY AFFECT SOMETHING THE OVERALL HEALTH OF THE COMMUNITY? AND THAT'S PART OF THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL FOR THE SPECIFIC USE PERMITS. 
          AND THIS LANGUAGE WAS BORROWED FROM OTHER CITIES THAT HAVE IT AS THEIR CRITERIA FOR PEOPLE. 
          I CAN'T REMEMBER WHICH ONE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT STAFF LOOKED AT WHEN WE WERE DOING OUR TARGET CITY RESEARCH AND SAID, THAT ONE'S, THAT ONE WOULD BE A GOOD ONE TO INCLUDE BECAUSE WE DEAL WITH THIS ALL THE TIME. 
          YOU KNOW, DOES THIS SPECIFIC USE AT, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY DOES THE GOOD OUTWEIGH THE BAD, ESSENTIALLY? AND THAT'S, THAT'S THERE FOR THE JUDGMENT, A JUDGMENT CALL FOR STAFF AND FOR COUNCIL PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSIONERS AS WELL. 
          IT'S BROAD, BUT IT'S SUBJECTIVE. 
          CORRECT WHAT YOU'RE 
          [01:15:01]
SAYING. 
          SO. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          AND THEN CAN YOU GO TO THE LAST WHERE YOUR, UM, YOUR OBJECTIVES FOR, FOR YOUR STAFF? I THINK IT WAS THE LAST PAGE WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO ALIGN THE, UM, KEEP GOING. 
          WAIT, STOP. 
          GO BACK. 
          ONE BEING PROACTIVE. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          FORWARD THINKING. 
          SO JUST, IS THERE A WAY YOU CAN JUST SORT OF TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW YOU AND YOUR STAFF GO ABOUT BEING PROACTIVE AND INITIATING CHANGE IN SORT OF THIS FORWARD THINKING? IT, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE SOMETIMES WE, Y'ALL PROPOSE SOMETHING AND THEN WHEN IT COMES TO THE COUNCIL, SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T ALWAYS GO THE WAY THAT YOU ANTICIPATE IT. 
          SO I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN BETTER ALIGN WHAT Y'ALL ARE THINKING WITH WHAT WE ARE THINKING AND IT ALL MESHES TOGETHER AND SO THERE'S LESS CONSTERNATION OR SOMETHING THIS FUTURE DECISIONS. 
          WELL, I, I THINK WITH THIS SPECIFIC, UH, ORDINANCE, I THINK WHAT WE SAW WAS, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, THE CRITERIA FOR POOL DIDN'T MATCH WHAT OUR CURRENT PRACTICES WAS. 
          AND RATHER THAN JUST KEEP COMING TO YOU ALL THE TIME AND SAYING THE SAME STUFF OVER AND OVER AGAIN, WE WANTED TO BE PROACTIVE AND TRY TO, YOU KNOW, IMPROVE THESE THINGS. 
          YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT WAS, IT DIDN'T COME AT THE DIRECTION OF CITY COUNCIL, BUT SOMETHING THAT WE CONSTANTLY USE THESE, AND SO WE FELT LIKE THIS UPDATE KIND OF MATCHES WHAT WE'RE DOING IN PRACTICE. 
          AND THAT, AND I CAN'T SPEAK TO OTHER, AND MAYBE YOU CAN, YEAH, LET ME, LET ME MAYBE CHIME IN WITH THIS. 
          AND I THINK, I THINK SAM WAS REFERENCING ON THIS KIND OF US COMING FORWARD WITH CHANGES IN A PROACTIVE WAY. 
          HEY, WE SEE THIS ISSUE, WE SEE WHERE WE CAN IMPROVE SOMETHING. 
          WHAT I ASSUME YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MORE IS THESE ITEMS, THESE CASES THAT COME BEFORE CITY COUNCIL, SUCH AS ZONING CASES OR SUVS AND STAFF IS RECOMMENDING ONE THING AND COUNSEL THEN SAYS, NOPE, WE WANT TO GO A DIFFERENT DIRECTION THAN THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          YES. 
          YEAH, I, I, YEAH, I THINK STAFF SEES THAT AS WELL. 
          AND, AND I'LL BE BLUNT, WE'RE STRUGGLING WITH THAT TOO. 
          UM, AND FRANKLY, THE PDD ITEM, THE WORKSHOP ITEM YOU HAVE, THAT'S THE LAST ON THE AGENDA BEFORE EMILY GETS UP WITH A REALLY THOROUGH PRESENTATION ON PDDS, I'M GONNA GET UP AND KIND OF TRY TO GET AT WHAT I SEE AND I THINK STAFF SEES AS THOSE CORE ISSUES, WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, EFFECTIVELY COUNCIL SETTING POLICY AND DIRECTION, AND THEY'RE BEING CLARITY AND, AND NOT ALWAYS RIGHT, BUT CALL IT 90% OF THE TIME, 95% OF THE TIME, WE KNOW WHAT THAT POLICY DIRECTION IS. 
          AND SO STAFF ANTICIPATES THAT BASED ON THOSE FACTORS, ASSUMING WE'RE NOT MISSING SOMETHING. 
          UM, AND SO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS ALIGNED WITH P Z'S RECOMMENDATION IS ALIGNED WITH CITY COUNCIL'S RECOMMENDATION. 
          AND, AND WE DON'T SEEM TO HAVE THAT, AND I'LL SAY THIS JUST AS A SEGUE TO THAT, ONE OF THE THINGS IS WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF ALIGNMENT AMONG COUNCIL. 
          WE HAVE A LOT OF THOSE VOTES THAT THAT COME IN SPLIT. 
          AND THAT'S OKAY, THAT'S PART OF THE PROCESS. 
          THAT'S KIND OF WHY YOU GET ELECTED. 
          BUT THE CHALLENGE THAT CREATES IS THERE'S LACK OF CLARITY IN TERMS OF WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO GO, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE, AND WHY WE'RE TRYING TO DO THAT. 
          SO I THINK, I THINK THE LAST ITEM, WE'RE GONNA TRY TO REALLY DIRECTLY COVER THAT, AND YOU'RE PROBABLY GONNA GET PRESSED BY STAFF TONIGHT TO SAY, OKAY, THAT'S GREAT. 
          I I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ALL AS A BODY WANT AND AS A GROUP WANT. 
          AND, AND MAYBE WE WILL NEVER QUITE GET IT, BUT MAYBE WE GET CLOSER TOGETHER. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I APPRECIATE IT. 
          THANK YOU, SAM. 
          COUNCIL, ANY OTHER COMMENTS? I HAVE A QUESTION CONCERNING THAT YOUR COMMENTS, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S NOT, WHETHER OR NOT THIS COUNCIL IS, IS, IS GOING THROUGH A, A DIRECTION. 
          I THINK THAT THE STAFF'S MAIN PURPOSE IS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT, IT'S, IT'S ALIGNED WITH EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE PLACED ON THE UDC AND THAT'S WHERE YOUR RECOMME RECOMMENDATIONS SHOULD LIE. 
          NOT WHAT THE COUNCIL THINKS. 
          THE COUNCIL WILL MAKE THEIR DECISIONS, BUT IF YOU TRY TO ALIGN WITH WHAT THE UDC AND THE VISION OF THIS COUNCIL IS NEVER GONNA BE THE SAME. 
          AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE OUR DIFFERENCES. 
          BUT YOUR RECOMMENDATION SHOULD BE BASED ON DOES IT MEET THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND NOT WHAT THIS COUNCIL THINKS, RIGHT? SO, SO IF I WILL MAYOR, AND MAYBE LET ME CLARIFY, MAYBE I WASN'T CLEAR. 
          OKAY. 
          SO PARTICULARLY WITH OUR ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT FOR EXAMPLE, THERE ARE VERY QUANTIFIABLE CRITERIA THAT SAYS IF YOU GENERATE, IF THE PROJECT GENERATES THIS MANY TRIPS IN THE PEAK HOUR OR OVER THIS AMOUNT, THEY HAVE TO DO A TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS. 
          IT'S 
          [01:20:01]
A QUANTIFIABLE, IT'S MATH. 
          WE CAN ALL LOOK AT IT AND AGREE TO DISAGREE WHEN THEY DO A STORM WATER MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR OUR PROJECT. 
          AND IT SAYS YOU CAN'T INCREASE THE RATE OF FLOW OFF A PROPERTY THAT'S ALL BASED ON A BUNCH OF MATH. 
          I CERTAINLY CAN'T DO IT. 
          THE ENGINEERS CAN, UH, THE DEVELOPER'S, ENGINEERS CAN, IT, IT'S EXACTLY QUANTIFIABLE. 
          BUT WHEN WE HAVE SOMEONE COME FORWARD WITH A ZONING CASE, IT'S NOT A MATH QUESTION, RIGHT? IT'S HOW WE TAKE THE CRITERIA THAT WE READ. 
          AND, AND TO YOUR POINT EARLIER IN TERMS OF, UM, HOW IT, UH, ADVERSELY IMPACTS OUR JUDGMENT CALL ON WHETHER A PROPOSED ZONING REQUEST OR AN SU ADVERSELY IMPACTS THE PROPERTY IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FOR ALL OF US. 
          AND IT COULD BE SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT, RIGHT? BECAUSE IT'S NOT A QUANTIFIABLE MATH QUESTION. 
          IT'S NOT IS IS THE BUILDING PERMIT FOR THE HOUSE DOESN'T MEET THE 20 FOOT SETBACK. 
          IT'S WHETHER OR NOT THOSE BROAD CRITERIA THAT ARE SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION AND SUBJECT, HOW WE MEET IT, WHETHER IT MEETS THAT OR NOT, THAT SEEMS TO REALLY BE THE ISSUE THAT, THAT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT AS WE'VE COME FORWARD WITH THESE ORNAMENTS, WE'VE HAD SOME GOOD QUESTIONS, WE'VE HAD SOME SUGGESTIONS HOW WE CAN MAKE 'EM BETTER FROM SOME OF Y'ALL THAT WE'VE ADJUSTED ON THE FLY AND STAFF GENERALLY SAID, NO, WE AGREE. 
          THAT'S A GOOD POINT. 
          LET'S DO THAT. 
          WE GENERALLY AGREED ON THAT, RIGHT? WE COME FORWARD WITH THESE ORDINANCE CHANGES AND WE KNOW WHERE WE STRUGGLE ARE THE ZONING REQUEST AND IT'S THE SUP REQUEST. 
          AND, AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S NOT THIS QUANTIFIABLE MATH QUESTION, RIGHT? IT'S ABOUT YOU CAN READ THESE CRITERIA IF YOU WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING EVEN TO GO IN WITH, RIGHT? SO THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL, IT'S THE, YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH THE POLICIES AND ADOPTED COMPREHENSIVE LAND PLAN OR OTHER APPLICABLE ADOPTED PLANS. 
          I WILL TELL YOU THIS, FOR EVERY ONE OF THESE CASES GENERALLY THAT WE'VE HAD IN MY ENTIRE TENURE HERE, I COULD COME UP WITH LANGUAGES AND POLICIES IN THAT TO SAY, THIS IS WHY YOU WOULD NOT APPROVE IT AND THIS IS WHY YOU WOULD APPROVE IT. 
          RIGHT? IT'S A RIGHT, IT'S RARE THAT IT'S ALL ONE WAY OR ALL THE OTHER. 
          IT'S A BALANCING ACT. 
          AND SO THAT I THINK IS MY POINT. 
          AND SO YOU'RE RIGHT, PART OF WHAT STAFF HAS TO DO IS STAFF GETS UP AND MAKES A RECOMMENDATION BASED ON OUR PROFESSIONAL OPINION AND BASED ON WHAT WE UNDERSTAND THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES OF COUNSEL ARE, AND WE MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION AND THEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS, AND THEN WE GO SIT DOWN AND IF COUNSEL ASKS QUESTIONS, WE'LL GET UP AND TRY TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS AND WE GO SIT DOWN. 
          AND THEN WHEN COUNSEL MAKES THAT DECISION, OUR JOB IS TO MAKE THAT AS SUCCESSFUL AS POSSIBLE, WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS CONSISTENT WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION OR NOT, THAT'S WHAT OUR, OUR JOB IS ABOUT. 
          BUT PART OF WHERE WE RUN INTO A PROBLEM IS IF STAFF IS CONSISTENTLY RECOMMENDING THE OPPOSITE OF THE WAY COUNCIL WANTS TO GO, WHERE 10 OF 10 ZONING CASES STAFF IS SAYING DO THIS, AND COUNCIL'S SAYING DO THAT. 
          THERE'S A DISCONNECT THERE. 
          AND THAT DISCONNECT IS NOT HELPFUL. 
          IT'S NOT HELPFUL FOR OUR RESIDENTS, IT'S NOT HELPFUL FOR DEVELOPERS, IT'S NOT HELPFUL FOR YOU. 
          AND THAT REALLY IS WHERE THAT ALIGNMENT NEEDS TO BE. 
          AND I GET, AS I SAID, YOU WON'T GET IT A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE TIME, BUT, BUT WE GENERALLY SHOULD TRY TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE TO SAY, THIS IS WHERE WE'RE HEADED, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO BE, AND THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO. 
          IF, IF THAT MAKES SENSE, IT MAKES SENSE. 
          UH, BUT I CAN, I CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT THE COUNCIL REALLY CONSIDERS STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION VERY HEAVILY WHEN MAKING THEIR DECISION. 
          I I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT, MAYOR. 
          I THINK STAFF UNDERSTANDS THAT, RIGHT? AND AT TIMES THE FACT THAT COUNCIL DOES CONSIDER THAT THERE'S SOME PASSION COMING FROM COUNCIL ABOUT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. 
          AND WHILE WE MAY HAVE THE TIME, THINK OF THAT AS A LITTLE BIT OF A NEGATIVE, IT, IT IS BECAUSE COUNCIL DOES FACTOR THAT. 
          AND, AND THE OTHER THING I'LL SAY, AND WE TALK ABOUT THIS TOO, RIGHT, IS, AND, AND YOU KNOW, YOU'VE HEARD ME PROBABLY SAY THIS BEFORE, WE ALL APPROACH THINGS SOMEWHAT DIFFERENTLY, RIGHT? SO STAFF, WE HAVE THIS PERSPECTIVE FROM OVER HERE AS, AS CITY STAFF, AS BUREAUCRATS, RIGHT? REVIEWING THOSE THINGS. 
          WE AREN'T ELECTED BY THE CITIZENS OF SHIRTS TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS. 
          YOU ARE. 
          AND SO YOU'RE GOING TO SIT OVER HERE AND HAVE A SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, RIGHT? AND SO SOMETIMES INHERENTLY YOU'LL LOOK AT THINGS DIFFERENTLY THAN STAFF LOOKS AT IT. 
          AND THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S OKAY. 
          AND WHERE WE HAVE SOME OF THOSE, THAT'S WHY SOME OF THAT 10% WE, WE MAY NOT SEE EYE TO EYE. 
          SO I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU, IT'S NOT ABOUT, YOU'RE NOT APPRECIATING STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. 
          IT'S ABOUT US ALL TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD TO THIS AGREED UPON DIRECTION AND, AND HOW WE DO THAT. 
          BECAUSE AGAIN, IT'S NOT HELPFUL 
          [01:25:01]
TO NOT HAVE THAT ALIGNMENT WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE A DECISION, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. 
          YES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU SO MUCH. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN. 
          I THINK IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO EVERYTHING THAT STAFF IS DOING IS CORRECT. 
          YOU, YOU PUT A, YOU KNOW, A PROJECT COMES THROUGH YOU PLANNING AND ZONING, YOU HEAR ALL THE PROS AND CONS, EVERYTHING ELSE, AND YOU MAKE A RECOMMENDATION WHEN WE HAVE A ROOM FULL OF CITIZENS OUT HERE THAT DISAGREE AND WE LISTEN TO ALL OF THAT, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF, EVEN IF TECHNICALLY IT IS ABSOLUTELY AIRTIGHT PACKAGE, UH, IT'S, IT'S THE EMOTIONS THAT GET, THAT GET IN THE WAY. 
          AND I, I, I WOULD LOVE TO SAY I CAN BE EMOTIONLESS, BUT YOU KNOW, THE REALITY IS, IS IT'S A HARD THING TO DO WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO THAT. 
          UH, BUT, UH, JUST ON THESE HOUSEKEEPING ITEMS, I THINK HE DID A REAL GOOD JOB, REDUCE A LOT OF VERBIAGE, REDUCE A LOT OF TIME THAT YOU'RE GONNA SPEND, UH, YOU KNOW, BEFORE SOMETHING CHANGES . 
          SO I, I THINK THEY'RE, THEY'RE GOOD. 
          THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT PRESENTATION. 
          ON THAT MO, WE DO HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE FOR ORDINANCE NUMBER 24 S 1 55, MADE BY COUNCIL MEMBER WATSON, AND SECOND BY COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN COUNCIL. 
          ANY OTHER COMMENTS? PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE. 
          WE CAN PUBLISH THE VOTE, PLEASE. 
          WE HAVE SIX AYES, NO OBJECTIONS. 
          MOTION PASSES. 
          NEXT ITEM, ITEM NUMBER 
          [15.  Ordinance 24-S-156 - Conduct a public hearing and consider amendments to Part III of the Schertz Code of Ordinances, Unified Development Code (UDC), to Article 5 - Zoning Districts and Article 10 - Parking Standards First Reading (B.James/L.Wood/S.Haas)]
15, ORDINANCE NUMBER 24 S 1 56. 
          CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING AND CONSIDER AMENDMENTS TO PART THREE OF THE SHIRTS. 
          CODE OF ORDINANCES, UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE UDC TO ARTICLE FIVE, ZONING DISTRICTS AND ARTICLE 10 PARKING STANDARDS. 
          THIS IS OUR FIRST READING, MR. HAAS FLOOR IS YOURS. 
          THANK YOU, MAYOR COUNCIL MR. WILLIAMS, ORDINANCE 24 S 1 56 UCS, ARTICLE FIVE AND ARTICLE 10, SAMUEL HAAS, SENIOR PLANNER. 
          SO THIS WILL BE A VERY FAMILIAR, UH, PRESENTATION FOR A LOT OF Y'ALL BECAUSE, UH, WE DID A WORKSHOP ON THIS ON AUGUST 6TH, 2024, AND WE'VE, UH, WE'VE KIND OF RUN THE TRAPS AND WE'VE GONE INITIATED THE ACTUAL PROCESS HERE. 
          SO THIS IS ALL PERTAINING TO, UH, ADJUSTMENTS, UH, THAT WE ARE PROPOSING TO, UH, OUR R FOUR DISTRICT AND THEN ALSO ESTABLISHING A NEW R FIVE DISTRICT. 
          AND WHAT WE'RE THE, THE GOAL OF THIS IS TO REALLY KIND OF CAPTURE SOME TRENDS IN DEVELOPMENT AND THAT THERE'S THESE LOWER DENSITY DISPERSED TOWN HOME STYLE DEVELOPMENTS. 
          WHAT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CALLING BUILD TO RENT. 
          UH, THEY'RE MULTIFAMILY AND FUNCTION, BUT INFORMED, THEY LOOK ESSENTIALLY LIKE A, A NEIGHBORHOOD. 
          SO YOU'LL BE FAMILIAR. 
          UM, THIS IS A, A SHIRT STATION THAT IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION RIGHT NOW. 
          IT'S UP ON 35. 
          UH, THEY HAVE, UH, THIS IS A RENDERING OF WHAT IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE. 
          THE GENERAL BUSINESS IS UP FRONT, BUT IN THE BACK WE DIDN'T REALLY HAVE A ZONING DISTRICT FOR THEM, SO THEY WENT THE PDD ROUTE. 
          AND SO IN ORDER TO KIND OF, AGAIN, CAPTURE THAT, WE WERE PROPOSING A COUPLE CHANGES. 
          ESTABLISH A NEW ZONING DISTRICT AND MODIFY THE EXISTING APARTMENT, MULTI-FAMILY DISTRICT R FOUR. 
          SO THE FIRST ONE FOR, UH, THE FIRST PROPOSAL FOR ESTABLISHING THE NEW DISTRICT. 
          THIS IS THE MIDDLE DENSITY R FIVE. 
          IT'S LOWER DENSITY IN TRADITIONAL APARTMENT COMPLEXES. 
          IT, AND IT ALSO PROVIDES ITS CENTERS FOR SMALLER DEVELOPMENT, UH, AND IN AN EFFORT TO CAPTURE MARKET TRENDS AND PROVIDE A VARIETY OF HOUSING INSURANCES. 
          SO WE'LL DO THAT BY, UH, PROPOSING AMENDMENTS TO, UH, FIVE SECTIONS. 
          AND I'LL GO THROUGH THOSE ONE AT A TIME. 
          SO 2 1 5 2 IS A TABLE IN THE UDC THAT JUST ESTABLISHES ZONING DISTRICTS. 
          ADDING OUR FIVE TO THAT 2 1 55 IS A STATEMENT OF PURPOSE AND INTENT. 
          THIS IS KIND OF THE NARRATIVE, UH, PARAGRAPH FOR EVERY ZONING DISTRICT. 
          UM, MIDDLE DENSITY CR FIVE IS INTENDED TO PROVIDE DEVELOPMENTS THAT OFFER A VARIETY OF HOUSING TYPES. 
          THIS DISTRICT IS A SUITABLE TRANSITION BETWEEN SINGLE FAMILY, RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL AND OR DENSER MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS COMPRISED OF ATTACHED OR DETACHED RESIDENTIAL DWELLING UNITS. 
          WHEN TRACKS IN THE DISTRICT ARE ONE ACRE OR LESS DENSITY SHALL NOT EXCEED 16 UNITS PER ACRE. 
          THESE TRACKS WILL BE REQUIRED TO SINGLE FAMILY, ADHERE TO SINGLE FAMILY DESIGN REQUIREMENTS IN ARTICLE NINE. 
          AND WHEN TRACKS EXCEED ONE ACRE, 12 UNITS PER ACRE. 
          AND THE TRACKS WILL BE, UH, OR THE, THESE TRACKS WILL BE REQUIRED TO ADHERE TO MULTIFAMILY DESIGN REQUIREMENTS IN ARTICLE NINE. 
          SO THE NEXT SECTION WILL BE 2157. 
          THIS IS THE DIMENSIONAL AND DESIGN TABLE. 
          UH, YOU'LL SEE HERE THAT THE R FIVE WE'RE PROPOSING THAT THE MINIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR THE LOT IS A QUARTER ACRE. 
          UH, AND THEN THERE'S NO WIDTH OR DEPTH REQUIREMENT. 
          AND THEN THE SETBACKS ARE PRETTY SIMILAR TO ALL OUR OTHER, UH, DISTRICTS. 
          UH, 21, 25, 10, AND 10. 
          AND THEN WE HAVE A HIGH REQUIREMENT OF, OR HIGH MAXIMUM OF 35 FEET AS WELL. 
          SO ONE OF THE CHANGES, UH, THAT YOU'LL SEE SINCE THE WORKSHOP IS THIS, UM, KEY DOWN HERE CALLED Q. 
          SO IT SAYS REFER TO 21 5 7 B EIGHT, WHICH IS THIS. 
          AND THIS WAS DONE, UM, 
          [01:30:01]
A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN, UH, YOU KNOW, THE PRIVATE SIDE, OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT AND PLANNING TO KIND OF WORK OUT SOME LANGUAGE ON HOW TO DO SOME FIRE SAFETY. 
          AND, UM, ESSENTIALLY WHAT THIS SECTION IS, IS TALKING ABOUT IS THE SPACE IN BETWEEN BUILDINGS. 
          BECAUSE WE, A LOT OF THESE COME IN AS ONE LARGE LOT AND THEY ARE MULTI-FAMILY IN FUNCTION, BUT INFORMED THEY LOOK LIKE LITTLE NEIGHBORHOODS. 
          WE DON'T HAVE THOSE LIKE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS FOR FIRE SAFETY, RIGHT? SO WE HAD TO KIND OF WORK IN SOME THINGS AND MAKE SURE IT'S STILL GONNA BE A USABLE DISTRICT FOR, FOR DEVELOPERS, AND THAT'S NOT GONNA JUST SIT ON THE SHELF. 
          SO, UH, FIRE AND PLANNING KIND OF CAME UP WITH THESE REQUIREMENTS AND YOU'LL SEE, SO ESSENTIALLY WHEN AN HVAC UNIT IS NOT WITHIN THE BUILDING SEPARATION SPACE, THEY CAN BE 10 FEET APART. 
          THIS ALLOWS OUR FIRE TEAM TO GO IN THERE AND FIGHT FIRES AND MOVE AROUND IN THAT SPACE. 
          WHEN HVAC UNITS ARE WITHIN THE BUILDING SEPARATION SPACE OR EITHER STRUCTURE IS ONE STORY IS ABOVE ONE STORY, THE MINIMUM SEPARATION IS 15 FEET. 
          SO IF THERE IS AN HVAC UNIT, YOU GOTTA PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT MORE SPACE. 
          THE, UH, THE TWO STORY IS PERTAINS TO LOUDER PLACEMENT AND HOW THEY GET UP AND FIGHT THOSE FIRES. 
          IF, UH, HVAC UNITS SHALL BE ON OPPOSITE SIDES, THAT WAY YOU CAN'T CROWD THE SPACE WITH, UH, HVAC UNITS. 
          UM, AND THESE ADDITIONAL STANDARDS ARE NOT REQUIRED IF YOU PUT A FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM IN THE BUILDING, IF THERE'S A SPRINKLER SYSTEM IN THE BUILDING, FIRE SAYS GO FOR IT. 
          SO THE NEXT SECTION IS 2 1 5 8. 
          THESE ARE A LOT OF THE SAME, UM, PERMITTED USES THAT ARE WITHIN ALL OUR OTHER RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS. 
          UM, GATED COMMUNITY CHURCH, MULTI-FAMILY DWELLING, SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING SCHOOL, AND TWO FAMILY DWELLING PARKING. 
          THE, SO FOR TRACK EXCEEDING ONE ACRE, IT'S GONNA BE TWO SPACES PER UNIT. 
          AND, UH, GOING AND PROVIDING THAT KIND OF BONUS FOR THE GOING, TRYING TO GO SMALLER. 
          UH, FOR TRACKS ONE ACRE OR LESS, IT'S ONE SPACE PER UNIT. 
          AND TO SUM UP KIND OF SOME OF THOSE, UH, DENT, THOSE BONUSES THAT YOU GET FOR TRYING TO DO A SMALLER DEVELOPMENT. 
          SO IF IT'S ONE ACRE LESS, YOU GET 16 UNITS PER ACRE ON A QUARTER ACRE LOT MINIMUM. 
          THIS MEANS YOU'RE ONLY GONNA GET FOUR TO 16 UNITS PER ACRE. 
          ONE PARKING SPACE PER REQUIRED PER UNIT. 
          YOU'RE REQUIRED TO, UH, ADHERE TO THE SINGLE FAMILY DESIGN REQUIREMENTS, WHICH IS NO 20 FOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFER FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY, NO 20 FOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFER NEXT TO SINGLE FAMILY USE. 
          UH, AND THEN NO EIGHT FOOT MASONRY WALL AND TWO TREES PER LOT RATHER THAN NINE TREES PER ACRE. 
          AND SO WHAT ARE THESE GONNA LOOK LIKE? YOU KNOW, THE QUARTER ACRE LOTS, YOU'RE GONNA GET THE FOUR PLEXES, THE HALF ACRE, YOU CAN GET UP TO EIGHT UNITS, AND THEN FOR AN ACRE YOU CAN GET 16 UNITS. 
          NOW, I WILL SAY THAT THERE'S STILL, UM, YOU KNOW, HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS MAXIMUM, SO WE'RE NOT GONNA GET THESE GIANT TALL 16 UNIT BLOCKS. 
          UM, AND THERE'S STILL OTHER CHALLENGES TO EVERY PARCEL, YOU KNOW, DRAINAGE DITCHES AND, AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT'S GONNA, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY GONNA ALLOW DEVELOPERS TO BE CREATIVE WITH IT. 
          AND SO OVER ONE ACRE, UH, PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD, YOU GET 12 UNITS PER ACRE, TWO PARKING SPACES PER UNIT, AND YOU'RE REQUIRED TO ADHERE TO ALL MULTIFAMILY DESIGN REQUIREMENTS. 
          ARTICLE NINE. 
          AND WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? IT LOOKS LIKE WHAT'S GOING IN RIGHT NOW, WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN APPROVED. 
          SO THE NEXT THING, UH, AS PART OF THIS PROPOSAL IS TO MODIFY R FOUR. 
          SINCE WE ARE ESTABLISHING A NEW KIND OF LOWER DENSITY DISTRICT, WE THOUGHT SOME MODIFICATIONS TO R FOUR WOULD BE APPROPRIATE, SO DENSE OR TALLER, BUT MORE SELECTIVE ON THE APPROPRIATENESS OF LOCATION. 
          SO HERE IS THE, THE NARRATIVE PARAGRAPH, THE SAME THING AS THE BEFORE THAT'S REALLY BUSY, SO I'LL JUST CLEAN IT UP FOR YOU RIGHT THERE. 
          SO THE, THIS DISTRICT IS A SUITABLE TRANSITION BETWEEN SINGLE FAMILY COMMERCIAL USES. 
          HOWEVER, APARTMENT MULTIFAMILY RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS SHALL NOT BE LOCATED IN AREAS WHERE THEY WOULD INCREASE TRAFFIC WITH ACCESS THROUGH SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS. 
          THAT'S A BIG CONCERN THAT A LOT OF RESIDENTS HAVE. 
          AND THEY SHALL BE LOCATED ADJACENT TO ARTERIAL STREETS. 
          UH, THE MAXIMUM DENSITY SHALL BE 35 UNITS PER ACRE. 
          20% OF THE TOTAL PLATTED AREA SHALL BE PROVIDED AS COMMON, USABLE OPEN SPACE. 
          AND SO 21 5 7, THIS IS WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE. 
          SO WE'RE ALSO PROPOSING TO INCREASE THE MINIMUM LOT AREA TO AN ACRE. 
          THAT'S THAT 43 5 60 NUMBER, UH, THE MINIMUM WIDTH TO 400 FEET. 
          THAT IS TO ENSURE TWO POINTS OF ACCESS, WHICH, UH, IS ALWAYS AN, UH, AN ISSUE TRYING TO GET. 
          AND THEN THE MAX HEIGHT, UH, INCREASING THAT TO 50 FEET. 
          NOW THE REASON WE KIND OF CHOSE SOME OF THESE NUMBERS IS WE LOOKED AROUND AGAIN AT ALL OUR, LIKE, TARGET CITIES WE CALL 'EM. 
          UM, AND THE HEIGHT, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE A LITTLE UNDER, HONESTLY, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE A LITTLE ON PAR WITH, UH, HOW EVERYBODY DOES DENSITY. 
          SOME CITIES DO A LOT MORE, SOME CITIES DO A LITTLE BIT LESS. 
          SOME CITIES ARE RIGHT ON WHERE WE ARE. 
          THE REASON WE CHOSE 35 IS BECAUSE SHIRTZ GATEWAY, WHICH IS ANOTHER PDD THAT'S GOING IN ON, UH, INTERSTATE 35 AND SCHWAB ROAD, UH, THAT WAS RECENTLY APPROVED WITH 35 UNITS PER ACRE. 
          SO WE THOUGHT IF COUNCIL WAS COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, THEN THAT'S OKAY. 
          AND THEN THE 45 FEET, UH, COUNCIL RECENTLY APPROVED THE 1518 APARTMENTS DOWN THERE AND, UM, WE DECIDED TO GO WITH JUST AN EVEN 50 TO PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT OF EXTRA SPACE 
          [01:35:01]
FOR ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES. 
          AND YOU'LL SEE HERE THAT THIS IS A 51 FOOT BUILDING. 
          UM, SO, AND STILL ONLY FOUR STORIES. 
          SO IT'S ESSENTIALLY JUST GOING UP A STORY. 
          AND AGAIN, WITH THE PLACEMENT SHALL BE LOCATED TO ARTERIAL STREETS. 
          EVERYTHING YOU SEE HERE IN RED OR IN YELLOW IS AN ARTERIAL STREET. 
          AND WITH THESE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS, ESSENTIALLY THE R FOUR DISTRICT WOULD ONLY BE APPROPRIATE ADJACENT TO THESE ROADS. 
          AND THIS IS NORTHERN SHIRTS HERE. 
          SO YOU'LL SEE, UH, THIS IS 35 HERE IN GRAY, SO 3 0 0 9, UH, FM 1103 FM 4 82. 
          THESE ARE ARTER STREETS, SCHWAB ROAD HERE, THIS IS, UH, CENTRAL AND CENTRAL SHIRTS. 
          HERE YOU'LL SEE BASICALLY SHIRTS, PARKWAY AND FM 3 0 9, UH, AND 1518 OVER HERE. 
          AND THEN OF COURSE, SOUTHERN SHIRTS, PORTIONS OF LOWER SEINE PORTIONS OF TRAINER HILL. 
          AND THEN 15 TO 18. 
          SO IN SUMMARY, UH, ESTABLISHING THESE AMENDMENTS WILL ESTABLISH R FIVE, UH, MINIMUM QUARTER ACRE LOTS, 12 UNITS PER ACRE, UNLESS YOU GO UNDER AN ACRE. 
          THEN YOU GET SOME, UH, SOME BONUSES AND THEN, UH, MODIFYING R FOUR, MINIMUM ONE ACRE LOTS, 400 FEET WIDTH TO GET THAT ACCESS. 
          UH, GOING UP A LITTLE BIT IN DENSITY, GOING UP A LITTLE BIT IN HEIGHT AND BEING MORE SELECTIVE WITH WHERE WE PLACE THESE DISTRICTS CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL. 
          21 4 7 D THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS PROMOTES THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND GENERAL WELFARE OF THE CITY AND THE SAFE, ORDERLY, EFFICIENT, AND HEALTHFUL DEVELOPMENT OF THE CITY. 
          SO THE UC FUNCTIONS BETTER WHEN WE PROVIDE ADEQUATE ZONING DISTRICTS AND DISTRICT OPTIONS FOR APPLICANTS. 
          SO WE HAVE A NEW ONE THAT'S, UM, THAT'S GONNA BE AN OPTION FOR PEOPLE. 
          AND THEN IT BALANCES THE DEMAND FOR HOUSING WHILE ATTEMPTING TO ALLEVIATE THE FRICTION BETWEEN ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOODS AND INCOMING DEVELOPMENTS. 
          NUMBER TWO, THE AMENDMENT TO THE TEXAS CONSISTENT WITH OTHER POLICY OF THE UDC AND CITY. 
          SO WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE SHIRTZ GATEWAY, PDD SHIRTS, STATION, PDD, THESE AMENDMENTS ARE ATTEMPTING TO CODIFY IN THE UDC, WHAT HAS BEEN RECENTLY ADOPTED POLICY AND AGAIN, BRINGING IN THE STRATEGIC PLANS POLICY VALUES FOR HIGH QUALITY LIFE. 
          THE HIGH QUALITY LIFE IS A WELL-PLANNED COMMUNITY THAT CREATES CONVENIENT LIVING AND IS NOT LIMITED OPTIONS FOR WORK, LIVE, AND PLAY. 
          SO THESE AMENDMENTS ARE CONSISTENT WITH OTHER POLICIES IN THE CITY. 
          ANY PROPOSED AMENDMENTS IS CONSISTENT WITH THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVE OF THE U-D-C-U-D-C STRIVES TO PRESENT OVERCROWDING LAND, AND AVOID UNDUE CONCENTRATION OR DIF OR DIFFUSION OF POPULATION. 
          SO WE ATTEMPTED TO CREATE THESE AMENDMENTS TO HELP BALANCE THE SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS WITH HIGH DENSITY APARTMENTS. 
          THE UC GOAL TO MINIMIZE THESE CONFLICTS AMONG THESE LAND USES AND LAND AND BUILDINGS. 
          SO PROVIDING AN IN-BETWEEN OF HOUSING OPTION AND REVISING THE R FOUR WILL HELP WITH THIS SINGLE FAMILY HIGH DENSITY APARTMENT KIND OF FRICTION. 
          THE STRATEGIC PLAN STATED GOALS FOR OPERATIONAL VALUES OF THE CITY IS ALSO TO BE INNOVATIVE AND TO BE PROACTIVE AS WE SPOKE BEFORE. 
          SO THESE AMENDMENTS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE UDC AND THE CITY UDC AND CITY GOALS AND OBJECTIVES AND OTHER CRITERIA AT WHICH, AT THE DISCRETION OF PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION CITY COUNCIL ARE DEEMED RELEVANT AND IMPORTANT IN THE CONSIDERATION OF THE AMENDMENT. 
          SO AGAIN, LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, ON AUGUST 6TH, 2024, CITY COUNCIL HAD A WORKSHOP. 
          THE COUNCIL RECEIVED A PROPOSAL POSITIVELY AND DIRECTED STAFF TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE AMENDMENT PROCESS. 
          SO HERE WE ARE, UH, NO SPECIAL CONSIDERATION FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION OR CITY COUNCIL. 
          AND THE PUBLIC HEARING PROVIDES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CITY COUNCIL TO DETERMINE THIS. 
          ARE THERE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, MR. HAAS. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          THIS ITEM IS ON THE AGENDAS AN OPEN PUBLIC HEARING. 
          IS THERE ANYONE IN ATTENDANCE WHO WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE CITY COUNCIL IN REFERENCE TO THIS SUBJECT? GOING ONCE, GOING TWICE. 
          PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED. 
          ALRIGHT, COUNCIL FLOORS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER HAYWARD, UH, SAM, THANK YOU. 
          I TRULY APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU'RE, LOOK, YOU'RE BEING PROACTIVE, AS YOU SAID IN YOUR PREVIOUS PRESENTATION, BEING PROACTIVE, LOOKING AT WHERE THINGS CAN BE AND HOW TO ALLEVIATE THE CONFLICTS. 
          I TRULY APPRECIATE YOU, YOUR DEPARTMENT TAKING THAT OPPORTUNITY TO FIND THAT MIX OF WHERE THINGS CAN BE. 
          I STILL THINK WITH THE APARTMENTS, I LIKE THE FACT THAT THEY'RE ON THESE, YOU KNOW, ULTERIOR ROADS. 
          THERE ARE STILL GONNA BE SOME PEOPLE THAT PROBABLY WILL SAY NOT RIGHT HERE. 
          UM, JUST SATURDAYS, UH, RESIDENT FROM CROSS VINES SAID THEY WERE UPSET WITH COUNCIL BECAUSE WE APPROVE THE APARTMENTS RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET. 
          IT'S 1518 IS A MAJOR ROAD. 
          AND SO I THINK THERE WILL STILL BE SOME FRICTION, BUT WE CAN'T RIGHT? MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY. 
          WE HAVE TO DO IT. 
          AND I, I LIKE THIS, THIS WAY IT MAKES THOSE DEVELOPERS THAT, THAT, THAT ARE COMING IN LOOK AT THIS PROCESS AND GO, OKAY, THIS IS WHERE I CAN PUT AN APARTMENT. 
          THIS IS WHERE I CAN PUT THAT SMALL DENSITY LIVING. 
          AND SO THEN IT GIVES, THAT GIVES THE CITY A WAY TO SAY IT'S NOT HAPPENING OVER THERE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , WE'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU WHERE IT CAN HAPPEN. 
          SO I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS BEING PROACTIVE IN HEARING THE RESIDENTS AND THEN HEARING FROM COUNCIL WHAT WE WOULD 
          [01:40:01]
LIKE TO SEE IN THE CITY. 
          AND THAT'S THE WAY WE MAKE US THE CORRIDOR OF THE FUTURE BY TAKING THOSE THINGS INTO CONSIDERATION. 
          SO THANK YOU. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER WESTBROOK, UM, MAYOR TOM WESTBROOK. 
          YES SIR. 
          SO I THINK THERE WERE TWO, TWO SLIDES. 
          ONE IT SAID NOT INCREASING TRAFFIC IN A SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD. 
          AND THEN I THINK TOWARDS THE END YOU SAID, I THINK IT WAS PHRASED A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY. 
          UM, NO TRAFFIC ADDING, NO, NOT, NO. 
          THE FIRST ONE WAS NOT INCREASING TRAFFIC, WHICH WAS SORT OF BROAD AND I THINK LATER ON IT SAID, UM, NOT INCREASING TRAFFIC WITHIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. 
          DO YOU REMEMBER THOSE SLIDES? YEAH. 
          SO I THINK THIS IS THE ONE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT. 
          SO SHALL NOT BE LOCATED IN AREAS WHERE THEY WOULD INCREASE TRAFFIC WITH ACCESS THROUGH SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS. 
          OKAY. 
          SO A LOT OF TIME YOU'LL SEE PROPOSALS THAT HAVE, UH, BASICALLY APARTMENT ACCESS GOING THROUGH A RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD. 
          THEY'LL USE A STUB OUT OR SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY THERE AND TRY TO AND PROPOSE APARTMENTS. 
          AND FROM WHERE WE'VE, WHAT WE'VE HEARD AS ONE OF THE MAIN CONCERNS FOR CITIZENS IS THAT HAVING THAT ACCESS THROUGH THERE IS GONNA BE, IS GONNA CAUSE A LOT OF ISSUES. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , YOU KNOW, HAVING HUNDREDS OF UNITS COME IN ALL AT ONCE IS GONNA CREATE A LOT OF ISSUES. 
          SO BY SAYING THAT, BY PUTTING IT HERE AND PUTTING SHELL KNOT, WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT YOU REALLY NEED TO HAVE ACCESS TO THIS COMPLEX THROUGH ONE OF THE ARTERIAL STREETS. 
          OKAY. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND SO R FOUR, WHEN YOU SAID MODIFY R FOUR, I THINK YOU STARTED OFF WITH FOUR PLEXES. 
          WHAT'S, WHAT'S A DUPLEX? IS THAT R TWO? YEAH, WE HAVE AN, AN R THREE IS A DUPLEX. 
          THE, SO THE REASON WHY WE'RE MODIFYING OUR R FOUR IS BECAUSE OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A NEW DISTRICT, R FIVE, WHICH IS THE FOURPLEXES AND THE THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          SO NOW THIS ONE WON'T REALLY COVER THAT PARTICULAR TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT. 
          NOW R FIVE WILL COVER THOSE AND THIS WILL BE MEANT FOR THE, THE BIGGER PROJECTS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I APPRECIATE IT. 
          OKAY. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER MACALUSO. 
          YEAH, I STILL WANNA VOICE MY CONCERN WITH THE, UH, PROPOSALS THAT ALLOW ONE PARKING SPOT PER UNIT. 
          I STILL DON'T LIKE THAT IDEA. 
          AND THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT WE SAW AT THE TML AND I KNOW, UM, MS. HAYWARD WAS IN THERE. 
          SHE WAS ON THE PANEL AND THEN, UH, THE MAYOR WAS IN THERE AS WELL. 
          AND IT WAS JUST OUTSIDE OF SAN ANTONIO. 
          THERE WAS THIS, UH, TINY HOME DIVISION THAT WAS PUT IN. 
          DOES OPENING THAT UP WHERE IT SAYS 35 UNITS PER ACRE, COULD SOMEBODY COME IN AND PUT 35 TINY HOMES IN THERE WITH ONE SPOT PARKING PER LOCATION? 'CAUSE IT WAS LITERALLY TO THE POINT WHERE YOU, YOU COULD NOT PARK IN FRONT OF A HOUSE. 
          THE, THE, IT'S SO TIGHT THAT YOU COULD HAVE ONE CAR IN THERE, BUT THESE ARE TWO BEDROOM HOMES THAT ARE 650 SQUARE FEET. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND IT WAS THEIR IDEA OF, UH, AFFORDABLE LIVING, BUT THE ACTUAL PRICE PER SQUARE FOOT WAS MORE THAN WHAT THE ACTUAL HOMES IN THE AREA WERE GOING FOR. 
          I MEAN, IT WAS, IT WAS RIDICULOUS AND IT WAS SOMETHING THAT I HOPE WE COULD NEVER WOULD ALLOW TO COME TO. 
          SURE. 
          SO THE WAY THE UDC CURRENTLY IS FOR R FOUR, FOR APARTMENT FOR MULTIFAMILY IS THIS REQUIRES TWO UNITS OR TWO PARKING SPACES PER UNIT PLUS 5%. 
          UH, BUT IN THE R FIVE ONE, YOU ONLY GET THAT ONE SPACE PER UNIT WITH, WHEN YOU GO SMALLER, IT'S WHAT WE CALL A BONUS, RIGHT? SO POTENTIALLY IF YOU HAVE A 16 UNIT APARTMENT COMPLEX, YOU COULD GET 16 PARKING SPACES, FOUR AND FOUR, YOU KNOW, EIGHT AND EIGHT. 
          BUT ONCE YOU GET ABOVE THAT ACRE, SO THAT MEANS YOUR DEVELOPMENT'S GETTING A LITTLE BIT LARGER, THEN YOUR DENSITY DROPS TO 12 UNITS PER ACRE. 
          AND THEN YOU HAVE TO GO TO TWO SPACES PER UNIT. 
          AND SO THIS IS, THEY'RE KIND OF SEPARATE. 
          SO LIKE THE 35 UNITS PER ACRE, IT WOULDN'T, THAT'S, IT WOULD BE TWO SPACES PLUS 5% THE WAY OUR CODES CURRENTLY. 
          AND WE'RE NOT PROPOSING TO CHANGE THAT. 
          I, I, I GUESS, I MEAN, I I IT'S MAYBE OUTSIDE OF THIS A LITTLE BIT, BUT I MEAN, IS THERE SOME KIND OF PROTECTION IN OUR CURRENT UDC THAT WOULD PREVENT A DEVELOPMENT LIKE THAT FROM COMING IN? UH, YEAH. 
          I MEAN I, I THINK OUR CODES ARE CURRENTLY WRITTEN TO PREVENT THAT AND MAYBE CLARIFY YEAH. 
          WHAT YOU WANT TO PREVENT. 
          AND I MEAN THE SINCERELY. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THIS DEVELOPMENT WAS PUT INTO AN ET E-T-E-T-J. 
          RIGHT. 
          UH, SO THEY COULD BYPASS SOME OF THE STANDARDS THAT THE SAN ANTONIO AREA HAS. 
          ANYWAY, I, I, TO ME IT WAS A COMPLETE DISASTER OF A DEVELOPMENT AND IT, IT JUST SCARED ME TO THINK IF SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE THAT POSSIBILITY TO BRING THAT INTO SHIRTS, WHICH I'M HOPING. 
          AND IN WHAT WAY WAS IT A COMPLETE DISASTER? , AND I DON'T MEAN TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT. 
          YEAH. 
          I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND BECAUSE I COULD, AND IF YOU WANT I I CAN TAKE A CRACK AT IT. 
          I'D 
          [01:45:01]
GUESS WHAT YOU, IT'S, IT'S THE SIZE OF THE LOTS, THE TINY HOMES, THE LIMITED, UH, STREET, UH, IT LOOKED LIKE IT WOULD BE A COMPLETE SAFETY CONCERN. 
          MM-HMM. 
          WITH CARS ON THE STREET. 
          YEP. 
          I MEAN IT WAS JUST OVERCROWDED USE OF SPACE, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT WE DIRECTLY STATE WE WANT TO AVOID. 
          SO, YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          SO, SO IN TERMS OF THAT, NO, BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL IN SEPARATE LOTS. 
          MM-HMM. 
           I BELIEVE IN THAT DEVELOPMENT. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND SO WE HAVE OTHER STANDARDS THAT WOULD GET YOU THERE. 
          THIS NEXT CONVERSATION WE'RE GONNA HAVE ABOUT PDDS THOUGH IS WHERE WE SORT OF HIT THAT. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT I THINK, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. 
          WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW MUCH PARKING IS NEEDED OR NOT NEEDED. 
          AND I THINK THAT'S A, WELL IT'S NOT THAT IT'S NOT AN IMPORTANT PART OF IT, IT'S, IT'S MAYBE NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF IT IN TERMS OF THIS, I WOULD SAY WHAT YOUR RECOMMENDATION IS. 
          AND SO IF YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, YOU CAN OFFER THAT WITH THIS AND SAY, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST NOT COMFORTABLE GOING THAT ONE SPACE. 
          I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED TO GO TWO SPACES. 
          MAYBE YOU SPLIT THE DIFFERENCE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          RIGHT. 
          IF YOU WILL. 
          OR MAYBE YOU GO, NO, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE TWO SPACES OR THREE SPACES. 
          YEAH. 
          I MEAN THAT'S MY, THAT'S MY OPINION. 
          I I I, I, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T DO THAT FOR LARGER APARTMENT COMPLEXES AND I JUST DON'T SEE WHY WE WOULD DO IT FOR THE SMALLER ONES. 
          UH, TO ME IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. 
          I I TOTALLY AGREE WITH, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER MACALUSO, IT SHOULD BE AT LEAST AT 1.5, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT FOUR APARTMENTS, YOU GOT SIX PAR PARKING SPACES, YOU KNOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE VISITORS AND IF YOU HAVE NO PARKING FOR 'EM, IT'S GOING TO CREATE CONFLICT. 
          SO, ALRIGHT. 
          WITH THAT, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER, UH, BROWN. 
          YEAH. 
          AND THAT, UH, DEVELOPMENT IS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME DEVELOPMENT. 
          IT'S NOT A MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT. 
          OKAY. 
          AND I, I DON'T LIKE IT EITHER. 
          TRUST ME, I DO NOT LIKE IT. 
          'CAUSE THE FRONT PAD IS THE, IS THE PARKING LOT AND NO GARAGE, YOU CANNOT PARK A, A CAR ON THE STREET SAFELY UNLESS YOU BLOCK A ANOTHER DRIVEWAY. 
          UH, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. 
          BUT AGAIN, THOSE ARE NOT MULTIFAMILY. 
          THOSE ARE SINGLE FAMILY LOTS THAT THE DEVELOPERS, UH, TAKEN DOWN TO 20 FEET BY 60 FEET OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, UH, TO PUT THESE LITTLE, LITTLE TINY PLACES ON. 
          AND THEY DON'T MEET ANY OF OUR OTHER CRITERIA. 
          AND NO, WE DON'T WANT 'EM. 
          DO YOU WANNA MAKE A RECOMMENDATION WITH UP TO 1.5? MAYOR, CAN I MAKE ONE COMMENT? YES, SURE. 
          SO I, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, A LOT OF THESE ARE USED A LOT OF, A LOT OF TIMES ISN'T THIS USED MORE FOR INFILL? UM, CORRECT. 
          AND, AND WHERE YOU, WHERE YOU HAVE THESE VOIDS WHERE IT'S A SMALLER LOT PER SE AND YOU, YOU'RE TRYING TO DEVELOP THAT INFILL IT, IT'S NOT A LARGE COLLECTION OF A BUNCH OF THESE. 
          YOU SEE IT IN INTERIOR SAN ANTONIO, SOME OTHER AREAS THAT ARE REDEVELOPING, RIGHT? IS THAT CORRECT? YES. 
          THAT'S, THAT WAS THE INTENT OF THE LESS THAN AN ACRE BONUS. 
          RIGHT. 
          IF YOU WILL. 
          IT, IT IT'S SOMETHING DOES IT ACT SOMEWHAT OF AS AN ENCOURAGEMENT THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY FIT MORE UNIT AND MAYBE TAKE A LITTLE LESS SPACE FOR PARKING? YES. 
          IT WAS MEANT AS TO, AS AN INCENTIVE BECAUSE WE DON'T, A LOT OF THESE LOTS COULD BE ODDLY SHAPED. 
          THEY MIGHT HAVE DI OTHER KIND OF DEVELOPMENT MENTAL CHALLENGES LIKE DRAINAGE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          AND, UH, REQUIRING MORE PARKING MEANS THAT'S LESS BUILDING, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S, BUT IF IT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS MEANT TO BE JUST LIKE, LIKE YOU SAID, LIKE AN INFILL SORT OF DEVELOPMENT AND IT'S NOT MEANT TO AS A, YOU KNOW, A LARGE SWATH OF LAND. 
          YEAH, I UNDERSTAND THAT. 
          I JUST THINK THAT WHEN YOU RESTRICT THE, THE PARKING THAT TIGHT, THAT IT'S JUST GONNA PUSH CARS OUTSIDE OF THEIR AREA, STREET PARKING AND YEAH. 
          SO IT'S JUST, I DON'T, THAT'S THE AREA THAT I DON'T LIKE AND IT IS GONNA CAUSE FRICTION WITH THE NEIGHBORS. 
          THEY'RE NOT GONNA LIKE IT. 
          AND I THINK IT JUST OPENS UP, YOU KNOW, SOME ISSUES THAT WE REALLY DON'T WANT. 
          AND, UH, SO TO ME I WOULD MAKE, I MEAN, I WOULD VOTE TO APPROVE IF WE DO NOT GO MINIMUM OF LESS THAN ONE AND A HALF SPOTS, WE CAN, WE CAN MAKE THAT CHANGE. 
          SO I DON'T KNOW HOW I WOULD NEED TO SAY THAT INTO, IN TERMS OF A MOTION, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD MOTION. 
          A MOTION WITH A MODIFICATION. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , YEAH. 
          APPROVAL WITH WITH THE ONE MODIFICATION. 
          OKAY. 
          AND DO I ACCEPT THAT AS A MOTION? UH, COUNCIL MEMBER MACALUSO? YES, SIR. 
          OKAY. 
          SECOND. 
          SO MOTION'S BEEN MADE FOR ORDINANCE NUMBER 24 S 1 56 TO APPROVE WITH A MODIFICATION OF 1.5, UH, PARKING SPACES FOR THOSE SMALL UNITS. 
          AND I HEARD A SECOND BY COUNCIL MEMBER WATSON, UH, COUNSEL, ANY OTHER COMMENTS? YES. 
          COUNCIL, A QUESTION. 
          WHEN WE DID APARTMENTS A WHILE AGO, DIDN'T WE CHANGE THAT FROM TWO SPOTS WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE PARKING LOT SIZE, DIDN'T WE CHANGE THAT FROM TWO TO ONE WITH SOME GUEST PARKING OR WAS THAT JUST A DISCUSSION? WE LEFT IT AT TWO, I THINK. 
          YEAH, IT WAS THE, 
          [01:50:01]
THE CHANGE, UH, IS TWO PER UNIT PLUS 5%. 
          YEAH. 
          AND IT WAS MORE THAN THAT PREVIOUSLY. 
          BUT WITH, IN THIS SITUATION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SMALL UNITS IS CORRECT. 
          WHAT HE REFERRED TO. 
          YEAH. 
          YES. 
          OKAY. 
          ANY OTHER COMMENTS? ALRIGHT, COUNSEL, PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE. 
          WE CAN PUBLISH THE VOTE, PLEASE. 
          WE HAVE SIX AYES. 
          NO OBJECTION. 
          MOTION PASSES. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          NEXT ITEM. 
          WE HAVE A 
          [16.  Workshop regarding Planned Development Districts (PDDs) (B.James/L.Wood/E.Delgado)]
WORKSHOP. 
          WORKSHOP REGARDING THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT PDDS. 
          MR. JAMES, THANK YOU. 
          AS, AS I SAID BEFORE, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA START A LITTLE BIT ON THIS AND THEN WE'LL SEE WHERE THAT GOES. 
          AND THEN EMILY HAS A VERY THOROUGH PRESENTATION ON PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICTS. 
          BUT AS I SAID, I DON'T THINK THE CORE ISSUE REALLY IS ABOUT THE SPECIFICS AND THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICTS, RIGHT? I I THINK IT'S THIS DEEPER POLICY DISCUSSION THAT WE'VE SEEN IN SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT YOU'VE HAD ON THE LAST TWO ITEMS, RIGHT? IT'S HOW WE APPROACH DEVELOPMENT. 
          EVEN THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES, TO ME IT REFLECTS A LITTLE BIT OF, OF THIS VIEW IS IT, LOOK, LET'S SET A STANDARD TO BE PRETTY CONFIDENT. 
          WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A SITUATION THAT WE DON'T CREATE A PROBLEM, RIGHT? WITH THE ADJACENT NEIGHBORS. 
          THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. 
          THAT'S A PERFECTLY VALID POSITION TO TAKE THAT CITIES AND COMMUNITIES DO ALL OVER THE PLACE. 
          THE OTHER IS A LITTLE BIT MORE, WELL, I CAN NEVER STOP EVERYTHING THAT'S GONNA BE PROBLEMATIC. 
          AND IF I TRY TO, I'M GONNA HAVE REGULATION AFTER REGULATION AFTER REGULATION. 
          AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BIT OF FAITH THAT, THAT MOST OF THE TIME IT WORKS OUT PRETTY WELL AND, AND WE DON'T CREATE A PROBLEM, RIGHT? AND, AND YOU'VE HEARD ME TALK ABOUT THAT WHEN I TALK ABOUT HOW WE WRITE THESE ORDINANCES, IF DEVELOPERS AND WHATNOT CAN ALWAYS FIND A WAY AROUND ORDINANCES. 
          AND SO THE QUESTION IS, HOW MANY, HOW MUCH OPENING DO YOU WANNA LEAVE FOR FOLKS TO FIND A WAY AROUND THAT? AND IF THE ANSWER IS I DON'T WANNA LEAVE VERY MUCH, WHICH IS PERFECTLY VALID, THEN WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IS YOU'RE GONNA HANG UP FOLKS THAT YOU WEREN'T INTENDING TO WITH THAT TIGHTER REGULATION. 
          DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? AND AGAIN, YOU MAY BE PERFECTLY FINE WITH THAT SAYING, LOOK, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF THE PRICE YOU PAY A LITTLE BIT AND IT'LL WORK ITSELF OUT. 
          BUT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THESE THINGS THAT ARE PROBLEMATIC AS OPPOSED TO NO, I I WANT TO HANG UP FEWER PEOPLE UNINTENTIONALLY. 
          AND THAT MEANS THERE'S A BIGGER LOOPHOLE, IF YOU WILL, FOR FOLKS TO COME THROUGH WITH THE ORDINANCE. 
          AND SO AGAIN, I THINK WHERE STAFF HAS SEEN THIS HAS BEEN THESE ZONING CASES THAT HAVE COME FORWARD. 
          IT'S BEEN THE SUP WE'VE COME FORWARD AND, AND AS WAS KIND OF MENTIONED, IF NO PROPERTY OWNERS NEARBY SHOW UP, IT'S RARE THAT WE HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF DEBATE OR DIALOGUE, RIGHT? WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS, AND THIS IS IN EVERY COMMUNITY, IT'S WHEN IT'S NEARBY EXISTING RESIDENTS GENERALLY, BUT SOMETIMES BUSINESS OWNERS THAT HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE POTENTIAL CHANGE, HOW WE APPROACH THAT, RIGHT? AND, AND THE PHILOSOPHY AS I SAID IS DO WE LOOK AT THE ZONING CASE OF THIS CHANGE AND SAY, LOOK, WHY SHOULD I APPROVE THIS THING UNLESS IT'S CLEAR WE GONNA MAKE OUR COMMUNITY BETTER, MOVE US IN THE THIS DIRECTION WE WANT TO GO. 
          AND IF IT'S, AND IF I'M NOT CONFIDENT IT'S NOT GONNA DO THAT, THEN JUST LEAVE THE ZONING AS IS. 
          AGAIN, IT'S A PERFECTLY VALID POSITION TO TAKE. 
          NOW THE FLIP SIDE IS TO SAY, LOOK, UNLESS THE ZONING CASE CLEARLY DEMONSTRABLY IS GONNA CREATE REAL HARM AND NOT JUST FEARS WE THROW OUT THAT AREN'T REASONABLE, THEN WHY SHOULD I NOT APPROVE IT? THAT'S A VALID POSITION AS WELL, RIGHT? AND IT SHAPES HOW WE VIEW IT AS CITY COUNCIL. 
          AND PART OF THAT IS A FACTOR OF OTHER THINGS. 
          HOW WE VIEW GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT. 
          IS GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT INHERENTLY IN AND OF ITSELF GOOD? OR DO WE SAY, YOU KNOW, GROWTH HAS GOOD TO IT, BUT GROWTH HAS BAD TO IT AS WELL, RIGHT? SO THERE ARE ADDITIONAL PLACES FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE AND SHOP AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          THERE ARE ADDITIONAL TAX REVENUE, THERE'S ADDITIONAL DEMAND FOR SERVICE, THERE'S ADDITIONAL DRAINAGE AND RUNOFF, THERE'S ADDITIONAL LIGHT, RIGHT? WE HAD THE NIGHT SKIES RESOLUTION EARLIER, AND SO THERE'S GOOD AND BAD TO IT AND, AND WE'VE HEARD COUNCIL MEMBERS IN THE PAST MAKE THE STATEMENT, WELL, PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO DEVELOP THEIR PROPERTY, COMMA. 
          AND THEN THE QUESTION IS, AS THEY SEE FIT, RIGHT? OR IT'S PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO DEVELOP THEIR PROPERTY AS IS ALLOWED UNDER THE ZONING THAT COUNCIL CHOOSES TO GRANT, RIGHT? THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEVELOP HOWEVER THEY WANT. 
          THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO DEVELOP HOW COUNCIL LIES AT VIA ZONING. 
          BUT WE'VE HEARD COUNCILMAN BUSH SAY IT DIFFERENT THINGS AND SOMETIMES 
          [01:55:01]
LEAVE OFF THAT AFTER THE COMMA PART, RIGHT? THAT WE'RE LEFT TO KIND OF GO, OKAY, JUST BROADLY SPEAKING. 
          AND AGAIN, NOTHING RIGHT OR WRONG. 
          AND SO WHAT THIS COMES DOWN TO, AGAIN, I THINK FROM A STAFF PERSPECTIVE IS HOW WE VIEW THOSE THINGS AND, AND REALLY IT'S ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE ABLE AND WHETHER WE'RE WILLING TO TELL A PARTICULAR DEVELOPER NO ON A PROJECT. 
          AND NOT THAT THIS IS A BAD PROJECT, OFTEN IT'S JUST NOT IN THE RIGHT LOCATION, RIGHT? AND SO WE HEARD SAM TALK ABOUT TRAFFIC THROUGH RESIDENTIAL STREETS. 
          WE HEARD THAT A LOT IN NORTH CLIFF, RIGHT? IN NORTH CLIFF, THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE GOLF COURSE, IT WAS TRAFFIC THROUGH THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AS OPPOSED TO PEOPLE SAYING THIS IS GOING TO IN IMPACT AND INCREASE TRAFFIC ON FM 3 0 0 9. 
          WE'VE HEARD THAT TOO. 
          FM 3 0 0 9 HAS A LOT OF TRAFFIC AND IT'S GETTING A LOT MORE TRAFFIC FROM WAY OUTSIDE THE BOUNDARIES OF SHIRTS. 
          THIS ONE THREE ACRE PIECE ISN'T REALLY GONNA MAKE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE. 
          BUT I THINK THAT'S REALLY THE ISSUE THAT WE'RE STRUGGLING WITH. 
          AND SO THE QUESTION IS, AND EMILY I'LL TALK ABOUT THIS, DO WE WANT TO USE A PDD TO KIND OF REDUCE STANDARDS TO INCREASE FLEXIBILITY FOR A DEVELOPER, RIGHT? SO THE FIRST TIME A DEVELOPER COMES IN WITH THIS NEW DISTRICT THAT SAM CREATED, BUT HAS A PDD ATTACHED TO IT AND SAYS, I WANT TO DROP IT FROM 1.5 PARKING SPACES TO 1.4, AND THEY CAN GIVE YOU ALL THE REASONS WHY. 
          ARE WE OKAY DOING THAT? OR DO WE COME BACK AND SAY, NO, WE SET THE STANDARD AT 1.5 AND IF WE DON'T THINK THAT'S RIGHT, THEN WE WILL REVISIT THAT FUNDAMENTAL PARKING STANDARD PER THE ORDINANCE. 
          BUT I'M NOT GONNA ADJUST DOWNWARD. 
          I CAN REDUCE THE STANDARD WITH A PDD, RIGHT? OR DO YOU LOOK AT THIS WHERE THEY COME IN AND THEY HAVE IT IN LOCATION AND THE NEIGHBORS HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THAT PARKING AND WE SAY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF THE NEIGHBOR'S SIGNIFICANT CONCERNS ABOUT PARKING ON THEIR STREET AND MAYBE THEIR STREETS COMING IN HAVE MEDIAN ISLANDS IN THEM LIKE SOME OF OUR OLDER NEIGHBORHOODS DO BECAUSE OF THAT FACTOR. 
          ONLY WAY I'M GONNA PROVE THIS ZONING IS WE NEED TO BUMP IT UP TO TWO SPACES BECAUSE I'M LESS WILLING TO TAKE THAT CHANCE, RIGHT? PERFECTLY VALID REASON TO DO IT. 
          BUT I THINK IT'S THAT PHILOSOPHICAL APPROACH THAT THAT REALLY IS ABOUT HOW WE USE PDDS. 
          AND SO TO ME, AGAIN, THE ISSUE IS NOT THE TECHNICAL OF PDDS, IT'S IT'S DO WE, HOW MUCH DO WE WANT TO TRY TO APPROVE THIS DEVELOPMENT? AND IS A-P-D-D-A WAY TO SOFTEN IT, DO IT, OR REDUCE STANDARDS TO MAKE IT VIABLE FOR THE DEVELOPER VERSUS HOW MUCH DO WE SAY THAT'S JUST, THAT PROJECT IS NOT THE RIGHT FIT HERE? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? AND THAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT WE HAVE. 
          BUT LEMME COME BACK. 
          I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN EVER RECALL A TIME WHERE WE'VE HAD A REQUEST TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF UNITS OR DECREASE THE LOT SIZE AND THERE'S BEEN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEXT TO IT WHERE THAT NEIGHBORHOOD HAS SAID, OH YEAH, WE'RE IN SUPPORT OF DOING THAT, RIGHT? AND, AND, AND HERE'S THE FLIP SIDE IS UNLESS THERE'S SOME USE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF IT THAT CAUSES THAT NOT TO BE VIABLE, THEN THE POLICY QUESTION PRE ANSWER IS WHY WOULD WE REDUCE IT? RIGHT? IF THAT CURRENT ZONING IS R 2 8400 SQUARE FOOT LOTS, WHY WOULD WE REDUCE IT? THERE'S NO REASON THAT CAN'T DEVELOP THAT WAY. 
          IT'S JUST WE HAPPEN TO HAVE A DEVELOPER WHO SAYS, OH, BUT I WANT TO DO R SIX OR I WANT TO DO R SEVEN. 
          AND SO ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT THE RESIDENTS TALK ABOUT, IT'LL ADD MORE TRAFFIC, IT, IT WILL ADD MORE TRAFFIC, IT MAKES IT DENSER, RIGHT? LESS ELBOW ROOM, LESS OPEN SPACE. 
          THEY'RE, THEY'RE RIGHT, RIGHT? IT ADDS MORE KIDS TO THE SCHOOLS, RIGHT? WHETHER, WHETHER IT'S OVERCROWDED OR NOT, IT, IT PROBABLY HAS MORE PAVING ON THE GROUND. 
          SO YOU GET MORE RUNOFF, MORE DETENTION. 
          SO WHY WOULD WE EVER APPROVE THAT? WHAT'S THE POLICY REASON TO DO THAT? UNLESS YOU CAN SAY, I DON'T WANT THAT BIGGER LOT THERE. 
          BUT AGAIN, THAT GOES BACK TO HOW I STARTED THIS VERSUS WHAT'S OUR PHILOSOPHY ON IT. 
          'CAUSE IN MANY CASES THE WORLD DOESN'T FALL APART IF YOU APPROVED A REZONE WITH SMALLER LOTS AND IT WENT AND DEVELOP, WE SURVIVED THE INCREASED TRAFFIC, WE SURVIVED THE GREATER DENSITY, WE SURVIVED THE LESS ELBOW ROOM, RIGHT? WE SURVIVED THE ADDITIONAL RUNOFF TO SCHOOL, SURVIVED THE ADDITIONAL KIDS. 
          IT'S THAT POLICY QUESTION. 
          AND THAT TO ME IS REALLY THE CRUX OF WHAT THE ISSUE IS THAT I THINK WE'RE STRUGGLING WITH. 
          AND I THINK WE'RE FOCUSING ON THE PDD AS A WAY TO DO IT, RIGHT? AND SO IF YOU LOOK AT WHEN THIS REQUEST CAME UP, IT WAS REALLY THIS DECISION IF YOU HAD ADJACENT PROPERTY AND THEY'RE SAYING, I DON'T THINK THAT'S POSITIVE FOR US. 
          AND IF THE VIEW OF COUNSEL IS A REZONE NEEDS TO IMPROVE THINGS, 
          [02:00:01]
THEN YOU WOULD SAY, I'M NOT GONNA PROVE THIS STRAIGHT ZONING. 
          I MIGHT CONSIDER IT IF YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR REQUEST OR BE MORE SPECIFIC AND SHOW THAT YOU ARE IN FACT IMPROVING THINGS. 
          SO WE'RE NOT ADDING TRAFFIC DOWN THE STREET THOSE RESIDENTIAL HOMES USE. 
          SO WE CAN GUARANTEE GREATER SETBACKS FROM THOSE PROPERTIES, RIGHT? SO THAT WE CAN SAY, YEAH, I KNOW IT'S NOT LIKELY YOU'RE GONNA COME IN AND DO 950 UNITS, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE YOU DON'T DO 950 UNITS. 
          I WANT TO CAVEAT 300 UNITS OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, RIGHT? THAT WOULD BE A REASON TO DO IT. 
          BUT AGAIN, THAT IS A PHILOSOPHY ON THE PART OF COUNCIL SAYING, I'M NOT GONNA APPROVE THIS ZONING UNLESS DEMONSTRABLY IT'S GONNA MAKE OUR COMMUNITY BETTER AND WE'RE GONNA OFFSET THOSE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES, RIGHT? AND WHEN I SAY THOSE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES, WHAT I REALLY MEAN ARE THOSE ONES THAT WE ALL WOULD SAY, YEAH, THAT'S A VALID CONCERN THAT WE'VE SEEN BEAR ITSELF OUT, RIGHT? WHAT, WHAT I DON'T HAVE AS MUCH CONCERN WITH ARE THE PEOPLE THAT COME IN AND I CAN APPRECIATE THE FEAR, BUT IT'S THESE FEARS THAT AREN'T BACKED UP BY DATA. 
          WELL, WHEN THIS DEVELOPS, THERE'S GONNA BE CRIME AGAIN. 
          I CAN LOOK THE POLICE CHIEF, HE WAS HERE, YOU DON'T GET A LOT OF CRIME HAPPENING IN THE MIDDLE OF AN AREA WHERE THERE ISN'T ANYONE. 
          WHENEVER YOU BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER, THAT'S WHERE YOU GET CRIME, RIGHT? WE HAVE CRIME AND SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS. 
          IT IT, IT'S ALL THE KIND OF DEVELOPMENT AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT GO WITH IT. 
          SO WITH THAT, I'LL BE QUIET AND, AND EMILY CERTAINLY CAN START, BUT I THINK REALLY THE ISSUE IS US GETTING SOME DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL ABOUT WHAT WE WANT AND WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO BE. 
          AND I'LL TOUCH ON ONE LAST THING, YOUR POINT ABOUT THAT TINY HOME SUBDIVISION. 
          IT WASN'T CLEAR TO ME THAT THERE AREN'T MEMBERS OF THIS COUNCIL WHO WOULD SAY THAT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY BE A BAD THING TO GET HERE. 
          NOT THAT THAT HAS TO BE EVERYWHERE, RIGHT? AND NOT TO SAY THAT WE DON'T WANT TO MAKE SURE OUR STREETS ARE WIDE ENOUGH, BUT TO GET A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT'S MAYBE 10 ACRES OF TINY HOMES AND PROVIDES, YOU KNOW, SOME DIFFERENT, THAT THAT MAY NOT BE A BAD THING WASN'T CLEAR TO ME. 
          SO WITH THAT, I'LL STOP TALKING AND SEE IF Y'ALL WANNA TALK OR YOU WANT EMILY JUST TO GO THROUGH HER PRESENTATION ON PDD. 
          IT'S LENGTHY. 
          OKAY. 
          YOU'VE BEEN WARNED. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          BRIAN'S HYPED THIS UP A WHOLE LOT. 
          SO I'M WARNING YOU NOW. 
          IT IS THOROUGH, IT IS LENGTHY. 
          I WILL TRY TO MOVE QUICKLY THROUGH IT. 
          SO A PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT ULTIMATELY IS CREATED TO PROMOTE, ENCOURAGE INNOVATIVE DEVELOPMENT THAT IS SENSITIVE TO THE SURROUNDING LAND USES. 
          THAT IS WHAT THE UDC SAYS. 
          IF THIS NECESSITATES A VARYING FROM AVAILABLE ZONING DISTRICT. 
          SO IF THERE'S NOT A STRAIGHT ZONING DISTRICT THAT WILL MEET THOSE NEEDS, THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT SHOULD DEMONSTRATE COMMUNITY BENEFITS SHOULD NOT BE USED TO DEVIATE FROM THE PROVISIONS OF THE UDC THAT CONTRADICT ITS INTENT. 
          THAT IS WHAT A PDD IS SUPPOSED TO BE AT ITS CORE. 
          SO WE DO HAVE SOME MINIMUM, UM, PDD SIZES. 
          SO IF, IF IT'S A STRAIGHT SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, IT HAS TO BE A MINIMUM OF TWO ACRES. 
          SAME THING WITH MULTIFAMILY AND A NON-RESIDENTIAL. 
          HOWEVER, IF IT'S A MIXED RESIDENTIAL AND NON-RESIDENTIAL, THEN IT HAS TO BE AT LEAST FIVE ACRES TO EVEN REQUEST A PDD. 
          WHEN WE LOOK AT THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS, UM, THAT ARE SET FORTH IN THE ORDINANCE GRANTING THE PDD, RIGHT, THEY COME IN, THEY REQUEST A PDD AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO HAVE THIS ORDINANCE DOCUMENT THAT IDENTIFIES, UM, THE CHANGES THAT THEY MAY BE REQUESTING IT SHALL, UM, INCLUDE BUT NOT BE LIMITED TO. 
          USES DENSITY, LOT AREA WIDTH, DEPTH YARD DEPTHS AND WIDTHS, BUILDING HEIGHT ELEVATIONS AND FLOOR AIR RATIO PARKING AND ACCESS SCREENING AND LANDSCAPING, ACCESSORY BUILDINGS, SIGNS LIGHTING AND MANAGEMENT ASSOCIATIONS AND OTHER REQUIREMENTS AS THE CITY COUNCIL MAY DEEM APPROPRIATE. 
          SO WITHIN THE UDC, WE ARE TELLING DEVELOPERS THAT THEY CAN REQUEST IN A PDD TO MAKE MODIFICATIONS TO ANY OF THESE ITEMS. SO, LOT AREA WIDTH DEPTH, I KNOW THAT'S A BIG ONE. 
          WE ARE TELLING DEVELOPERS THEY CAN REQUEST THAT. 
          SO WITHIN THE ORDINANCE THERE IS A DESIGN STANDARDS DOCUMENT. 
          SOME OF THESE ARE VERY LENGTHY. 
          YOU THINK THE CROSS MINE DESIGN STANDARDS, IT'S IN LIKE A THREE INCH THICK BINDER AT THIS POINT VERSUS SOME OF OUR SMALLER SINGLE FAMILY PDDS. 
          MAYBE A COUPLE OF PAGES. 
          THOSE DESIGN STANDARDS, IT'S A LIST OF ALL THE REQUESTED VARIANCES FROM THE STANDARD REQUIREMENTS. 
          TYPICALLY IN THE FORM OF A WRITTEN NARRATIVE, IT SHOULD INCLUDE THE UDC SECTION, WHAT'S BEING REQUESTED, WHAT'S BEING MODIFIED. 
          SO I KNOW WE'VE BEEN THROUGH CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL TONIGHT, SO I'M NOT GONNA BORE YOU WITH ALL OF THIS, BUT WE DO USE THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL FROM THE UDC. 
          WHEN WE LOOK AT PDDS, PDD AMENDMENTS 
          [02:05:01]
CAN HAPPEN FROM THE UDC AS WELL. 
          A MINOR AMENDMENT CAN BE MADE TO THE CONCEPTUAL PLAN THAT'S PART OF THE ORDINANCE. 
          UM, INCLUDING CORRECTIONS AND SPELLING DISTANCES, BUILDING POSITION OR LAYOUT CHANGES IN PARKING. 
          IF THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT CHANGE OR IMPACT THE NATURE OR PURPOSES OF THE APPROVED PDD, THE REQUEST MAY BE DENIED. 
          I'LL ALSO SAY THAT MOST OF THE PD D DESIGN STANDARDS THAT STAFF BRINGS FORWARD ON BEHALF OF DEVELOPERS HAS A SECTION AT THE END THAT IDENTIFIES WHAT'S A MINOR AMENDMENT AND THAT MAY BE APPROVED BY CITY MANAGER, HIS OR HER DESIGNEE, OR A MAJOR AMENDMENT THAT WOULD REQUIRE IT TO COME BACK THROUGH CITY COUNCIL. 
          SO GOING THROUGH SOME KIND OF HISTORY, UH, ON RESIDENTIAL PDDS ORDINANCE OH NINE S OH SIX AMENDED THE UDC AND CREATED THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT SECTION. 
          PRIOR TO THAT ORDINANCE, THEY WERE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENTS OR PUD UH, ORDINANCE 10 S 29, WHICH WAS ADOPTED IN 2010. 
          STIPULATED THAT NO APPLICATIONS FOR ZONE CHANGES TO R SIX OR R SEVEN COULD BE ACCEPTED, CONSIDERED OR APPROVED. 
          KEEP IN MIND THAT ORDINANCE IS NO LONGER IN EFFECT AND R SIX AND R SEVEN CAN NOW BE REQUESTED WITH LIMITED ACREAGE. 
          AFTER THE ADOPTION OF THE 10 S 29 ORDINANCE, PDDS BECAME MORE PREVALENT. 
          IF SOMEONE WANTED TO SUBMIT A ZONING FOR LOT SMALLER THAN THE R TWO, WHICH IS A 70 BY ONE 20, REALLY THEIR ONLY OPTION WAS TO REQUEST A PDD AS THAT ALTERNATIVE. 
          THE PRE PDD PROCESS WOULD ALLOW DEVELOPERS TO SUBMIT FOR A ZONE CHANGE WITH MODIFICATIONS TO THE LOT WITHIN DEPTH AND WOULD CREATE A PROJECT WITH VARYING LOT DIMENSIONS, SOME SMALLER AND SOME LARGER. 
          SO SOME EXAMPLES, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, WELL KNOWN CROSS VINE, THEY HAVE MODIFICATIONS IN THEIR PDD FOR LOT SIZE. 
          SCREENING, COMMERCIAL REQUIREMENTS, FENCING, LANDSCAPING, PARKLANDS AND PARKLANDS TWO, WHICH WAS DONE IN 2013 AND 2019. 
          MADE MODIFICATIONS TO SIGNS, LOT SIZE, EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIAL, LANDSCAPING, FENCING, AND SCREENING SADDLEBROOK IN 2021. 
          AGAIN, REDUCED LOT SIZE, INCREASED SIGN SIZE, INCREASE IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE, HERITAGE JOKES IN 2021, LOT SIZE, UM, MODIFICATIONS, CLOTHING PLAN, BLOCK LENGTH, LANDSCAPING CHANGES. 
          UM, TREE PRESERVATION AND MITIGATION REQUIREMENTS WERE, UH, REDUCED CARMEL RANCH IN 2021. 
          AGAIN, DECREASED LOT SIZE, INCREASED IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE AND INCREASED SIGN SIZE. 
          SO HERE'S SOME PICTURES IF YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR. 
          THAT'S HERITAGE OAKS TO THE LEFT AND CROSS MINE TO THE RIGHT. 
          CARMEL RANCH OFF OF LOWER SINE ROAD HOMESTEAD OFF OF 35 STERLING GROVE, WHICH WAS PROPOSED OFF OF CHINA HILL ROAD AND THE MAJORITY OF THE RESIDENTIAL PDDS A CITY HAS BEEN RECEIVING FOR MANY YEARS. 
          THE DEVELOPERS ARE REQUESTING VARIANCES OR DEVIATIONS FROM THE UDC IN ORDER TO GAIN APPROVAL FOR SMALLER LOTS, REDUCE SETBACKS, INCREASE SIGNAGE AND OTHER WORDS REQUESTING A PDD IN ORDER TO GET MORE HOUSE ON THE LOT AND MODIFY THE CODE TO MEET THEIR DESIRES AND GOALS. 
          MOST RESIDENTIAL PDDS ARE BEING USED IN ORDER TO BENEFIT THE DEVELOPER DEVIATE STANDARDS AND NOT NECESSARILY BENEFIT THE CITY, WHICH IS FROM THE BEGINNING, THE INTENDED GOAL OF A PDD. 
          THERE ARE SOME RESIDENTIAL PDDS WITHIN THE CITY THAT ARE UNIQUE AND DIFFERENT, SO I DON'T WANNA STIFLE THAT THERE ARE PDDS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED IN THE CITY THAT TRULY CREATED A UNIQUE DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENT THAN WHAT WOULD'VE BEEN POSSIBLE WITH THE UDC. 
          SO BASED ON THE PNZ AND CITY COUNCIL SUBCOMMITTEE RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, ORDINANCE 23 S OH SEVEN WAS ADOPTED IN MARCH OF 2023, WHICH ELIMINATED THE PRO PROHIBITION ON R SIX OR R SEVEN, SO THOSE CAN NOW BE REQUESTED. 
          KEEP IN MIND, WHEN THAT ORDINANCE WENT INTO EFFECT, THERE WERE, UM, STIPULATIONS ON HOW LARGE THOSE COULD BE. 
          R SIX IS CAPPED AT 30 ACRES AND R SEVEN CAPPED AT 40 ACRES. 
          SINCE PDDS HAVE MAINLY BEEN UTILIZED TO DEVIATE FROM THE UDC LOT SIZE REQUIREMENTS WITH R SIX AND R SEVEN NOW AVAILABLE FOR RESIDENTIAL. 
          ARE PDD STILL NECESSARY? ARE THEY STILL DESIRED? THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT STAFF IS BEING FACED WITH AND, AND IS BEING QUESTIONED BY DEVELOPERS AS WELL. 
          SO IT'S REALLY A POLICY QUESTION. 
          IF WE AS A CITY ARE, ARE OKAY WITH DEVIATING STANDARDS IN A PD DD, SHOULD THE UDC BE AMENDED TO CHANGE THE STANDARDS FOR EVERYONE? IF WE CONTINUOUSLY APPROVE PDDS WITH SMALLER LOT SIZES, INCREASED IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE, SMALLER SETBACKS, SHOULD EVERYBODY UTILIZING A STRAIGHT ZONING DISTRICT BE ABLE TO, TO REAP THOSE BENEFITS AS WELL? SEVERAL OF THE PDDS THAT I'VE MENTIONED HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED SIGNAGE, HOMESTEAD, CARMEL RANCH, SADDLEBROOK, ALL OF THEM HAVE, HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY LARGER SIGNAGE THAN WHAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, STRAIGHT FROM THE UDC BE PERMITTED? IF WE ARE OKAY WITH LARGER SIGNAGE FOR RESIDENTIAL, SHOULD WE MAKE THAT CHANGE ACROSS THE BOARD AND NOT REQUIRE SOMEONE TO SUBMIT FOR A PDD TO GET LARGER SIGNAGE? SO WE DO HAVE SOME COMMERCIAL PDDS. 
          IT'S NOT JUST UTILIZED FOR RESIDENTIAL. 
          [02:10:02]
UM, WE DO TYPICALLY RECEIVE MORE RESIDENTIAL PDDS THAN COMMERCIAL. 
          WE HAVE RECEIVED MORE RECENTLY THAT ARE COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL MIXED. 
          UM, BUT WE DO HAVE A COUPLE OF JUST STRAIGHT COMMERCIAL, SOME EXAMPLES. 
          SO THE VERDE ENTERPRISE BUSINESS PARK, IT WAS ADOPTED IN 2007. 
          IT IS ONE OF OUR, I THINK, MORE UNIQUE PDDS IN THAT IT EXPLICITLY STIPULATES THE USE OF THE 1996 UDC. 
          SO WHEN SOMEONE COMES IN TO DEVELOP SOMETHING IN THE VERDE ENTERPRISE BUSINESS, WE PULL OUT THE OLD MIGHT C 96 UDC, AND THOSE ARE THE STANDARDS THAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY UTILIZING. 
          THAT'S WHY THAT PART OF THE CITY LOOKS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN, UM, THE REST OF THE CITY. 
          IDV, UH, APPROVED IN 2021, ALLOWED ADDITIONAL PERMITTED USES, UH, DIFFERING OUTDOOR STORAGE REQUIREMENTS AND LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS. 
          THEY ACTUALLY INCREASED THE DIAMETER AT BREAST HEIGHT, UM, OF THEIR MINIMUM TREE SIZE STEIN RANCH, BETTER KNOWN AS EVO. 
          THAT WAS IN 2018. 
          THEY HAD INCREASED SIGNAGE AND AT THAT TIME WE WERE STILL ABLE TO, UM, REQUIRE DIFFERING BUILDING MATERIALS. 
          SO THEY AMOUNT MADE A MODIFICATION TO THAT. 
          AND THEN GARDEN RIDGE COMMERCIAL IN 2019, UM, THEY HAD ADDITIONAL PERMITTED USES ADDED AND THEN INCREASING LANDSCAPING FOR THAT PROPERTY AS WELL. 
          SO, AS I MENTIONED, WE DO HAVE SOME MIXED COMMERCIAL RESIDENTIAL AND MULTI-FAMILY PDDS. 
          UM, THESE ARE MORE RECENT, SO FM 1518 APARTMENTS AGAIN IN 2022, THEY HAD A DIFFERING PARKING RATIO, SO THEY DECREASED THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS, DECREASED SCREENING AND FENCING. 
          UM, ELIMINATED THE REQUIREMENT FOR WHEEL STOPS, CHANGED THE PARKING SPACE SIZE, HAD LARGER SIGNAGE, UM, SHIRT STATION IN 2022 HAD DIFFERING LANDSCAPING REQUIREMENTS. 
          THE ARCHITECTURAL ELEVATIONS, UM, DIFFER FROM WHAT THE UDC REQUIRES. 
          THEY HAVE THOSE MIXED USE AND THEN AGAIN, THEY CHANGE THE PARKING RATIOS AS WELL. 
          SO THAT IS THE SITE PLAN FOR THE 1518 APARTMENTS SHIRTS STATION, IDV SHIRTS GATEWAY, WHICH, UM, HAS BEEN MENTIONED A COUPLE TIMES TONIGHT IN THE R FOUR R FIVE PRESENTATION. 
          SO THEY ARE PROPOSING, UM, COMMERCIAL UP FRONT WITH THE MULTIFAMILY TOWN HOMES IN THE REAR AND THE MAJORITY OF THE COMMERCIAL PDDS. 
          SO THE DEVELOPERS ARE REQUESTING VARIANCES OR DEVIATIONS SO THAT THEIR DESIRED DEVELOPMENT IS ALLOWED. 
          SO AGAIN, THEY'RE PROPOSING THESE CHANGES TO ENSURE THAT EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANNA GET BUILT IS WHAT'S BEING BUILT, NOT NECESSARILY MAKING MODIFICATIONS TO THEIR SITE AND THEIR PLANS TO FIT THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES AND THE DESIGN REQUIREMENTS FROM THE UVC, BOTH COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS INCLUDE DEVIATIONS TO SCREENING AND BUFFERING. 
          TYPICALLY REDUCING THOSE, UH, LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS. 
          AGAIN, REDUCING THE REQUIRED LANDSCAPE SETBACKS REQUIRED NUMBER OF TREES, INCREASED SIGNAGE, SO THAT COULD BE ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE OR LARGER SIGNAGE ALLOWING ADDITIONAL LAND USES BY RIGHT AND MAKING MODIFICATIONS TO THE PARKING RATIOS AND STANDARD DIMENSIONS. 
          I WILL CAVEAT THE STANDARD DIMENSIONS. 
          THOSE WERE, UM, TYPICALLY ALL REQUESTED PRIOR TO THE UDC BEING MODIFIED TO REDUCE TO THE NINE BY 18. 
          THAT IS WHAT WAS BEING REQUESTED IN THE PDDS, UM, RATHER THAN THE 10 BY 20, WHICH WAS THE UDC STANDARD AT THE TIME. 
          SO AGAIN, POLICY QUESTION, IF WE AS A CITY ARE OKAY WITH DEVIATING STANDARDS IN A PDD, SHOULD WE JUST AMEND THE UDC AND MAKE SURE THAT ANY COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT THAT WANTS TO COME IN CAN REAP THOSE SAME BENEFITS? SIMILAR QUESTION TO THE RESIDENTIAL. 
          IF WE'RE OKAY WITH LARGER SIGNAGE OR INCREASED SIGNAGE, SHOULD EVERY COMMERCIAL DEVELOPER THAT MAYBE DOESN'T NEED TO COME IN FOR A ZONE CHANGE, DOESN'T NEED TO COME IN FOR A PDD, THERE'S A ZONING DISTRICT THAT'S ALREADY ESTABLISHED, ALLOWS THEIR DEVELOPMENT, THEY CAN HAVE LARGER SIGNAGE AS WELL. 
          SEVERAL OF THE COMMERCIAL PDDS HAVE REQUESTED AND BEEN GRANTED APPROVAL FOR ADDITIONAL LAND USES. 
          SHOULD THE UDC PERMANENT USE TABLE BE REVIEWED AND MODIFIED TO ALLOW ADDITIONAL LAND USES? IF WE'RE CONTINUOUSLY APPROVING PDDS THAT ALLOW LAND USES BY RIGHT IN GENERAL BUSINESS, JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE PART OF A PDD, ARE WE ACCEPTABLE TO HAVE THOSE SAME LAND USES ON A STRAIGHT GENERAL BUSINESS OWNED PROPERTY? SO WE, AGAIN, THE SEVERAL OF THE COMMERCIAL PDDS HAVE BEEN GRANTED APPROVAL FOR DECREASED LANDSCAPING. 
          I WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, WE JUST RECENTLY WENT THROUGH A LARGE MODIFICATION TO THE LANDSCAPING SECTION IN THE UDC, SO YOU KIND OF TAKE THAT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. 
          MOST OF THE U THE PDDS THAT WERE APPROVED, THAT SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED LANDSCAPING WOULD'VE HAD DIFFERENT DESIGN REQUIREMENTS BASED ON THE NEW UDC REQUIREMENT. 
          ANYWAY, SO HERE IS A TABLE THAT I CAN'T TAKE CREDIT FOR. 
          SAM PUT A LOT OF WORK INTO THIS, LOOKING AT THE DIFFERENT, UH, UDC UM, ANALYSIS VERSUS THE 
          [02:15:01]
PDDS. 
          SO THE D IS A DECREASE IN STANDARD VERSUS THE I IS AN INCREASE IN STANDARD. 
          SO IF YOU LOOK AT HALLEY'S COVE, UM, THE DIMENSIONAL AND DESIGN STANDARD, SO THAT'S YOUR LOT WIDTH AND DEPTH, UH, YOUR BUILDING SETBACKS, IT'S A D DECREASE. 
          SAME THING FOR SADDLEBROOK, CARMEN RANCH, STERLING GROVE, THE 1518 APARTMENTS, SHIRT, STATION SHIRTS, GATEWAY, ALL OF THEM HAD A DECREASE IN THE UDC REQUIREMENT FOR LOT WIDTH AND DEPTH, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. 
          UM, LOOKING AT THE NEXT ONE, GENERAL OUTDOOR STORAGE. 
          SO RIGHT. 
          THAT'S NOT REALLY APPLICABLE TO THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE, BUT FOR IDV THERE WAS AN INCREASE IN STANDARDS FOR OUTDOOR STORAGE. 
          SO I DON'T WANNA BORE YOU GOING THROUGH ALL OF THESE, BUT I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ON THESE. 
          UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT SIGNS, WE LOOKED AT A DECREASE, AS IN THEY'RE GETTING ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE THAN WHAT WE WOULD ALLOW CURRENTLY. 
          SO I KNOW THAT ONE'S A LITTLE CONFUSING. 
          SO KIND OF THE OPTIONS, THE DISCUSSION, UM, RESTRICT WHAT DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS, SITE DESIGN STANDARDS CAN BE MODIFIED. 
          IF WE DON'T WANT DEVELOPERS TO COME IN AND REQUEST CHANGES TO LOT SIZE, SETBACK, LANDSCAPING, SIGNAGE, THEN IT SHOULD BE CLEAR IN THE UDC THAT THOSE ARE NOT ITEMS THAT CAN BE REQUESTED TO BE CHANGED. 
          CLEARLY, IDENTIFY COMMUNITY BENEFITS, DESIGN STANDARDS THAT EXCEED MINIMUM UDC REQUIREMENTS IN ORDER TO ALLOW VARIANCE TO OTHER UDC REQUIREMENTS. 
          EXAMPLE, IF WE WANT TO REQUIRE INCREASED LANDSCAPING IN CONJUNCTION WITH DECREASED LOT WIDTH OR SMALLER ROADS, OR INCREASED SIDEWALKS FOR PEDESTRIAN AMENITIES, RIGHT? IT'S THAT GIVE AND A TAKE. 
          IT WOULD BE, UM, IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR STAFF, THE DEVELOPER, UM, TO, TO HAVE CLEAR GUIDANCE ON IF YOU WANNA REQUEST A DECREASED LOT WIDTH, THEN YOU NEED TO PROVIDE X, Y, AND Z IN ORDER FOR STAFF TO EVALUATE YOUR PDD REQUEST. 
          GORDON IS ON THE APPLICANT TO PROVIDE JUSTIFICATION ON WHY THE PDD IS A SUPERIOR DEVELOPMENT THAT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN DONE WITH CONVENTIONAL ZONING. 
          SO I THINK THIS IS A BIG ONE THAT THE DEVELOPER IS REQUIRED TO STATE. 
          WHY, WHY IS A STRAIGHT ZONING CASE NOT APPLICABLE? WHAT ADDITIONAL DESIGN REQUIREMENTS, WHAT ARE THEY DOING THAT'S GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND? WHAT COULD, WHAT COULD BE DEVELOPED WITH JUST THE STRAIGHT ZONING THAT'S THERE, OR A STRAIGHT ZONING THAT'S BEING REQUESTED. 
          WE COULD GET RID OF PDDS AND ONLY UTILIZE STRAIGHT ZONING. 
          THAT IS AN OPTION. 
          YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICTS AS, AS AN OPTION. 
          THAT'S THE PRESENTATION. 
          BRIAN, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANNA, WELL, BEFORE WE GET STARTED, YOU, YOU BROUGHT UP TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF PDDS, COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL. 
          I THINK WE NEED TO ADDRESS 'EM DIFFERENTLY. 
          UH, AND I THINK THE EASIEST ONE IS COMMERCIAL . 
          SO, UH, WITH THAT, LET'S ADDRESS COMMERCIAL. 
          WHAT, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE PD DD FOR COMMERCIAL? WE'LL START WITH THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, COUNCIL MEMBER WESTBROOK. 
          MINE WAS ABOUT RESIDENTIAL. 
          I'LL, I'LL TALK TO IT LATER. 
          OKAY. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER MACALUSO. 
          IN TERMS OF THE COMMERCIAL, I THINK IF, UH, IT SEEMS LIKE SIGNAGE IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST REQUESTS. 
          IS THAT WHAT YOU NOTATED AS BEING? SO, I WOULD SAY FOR THE COMMERCIAL, UM, MUCH AS I'M TRYING TO FIGURE, I TACTFULLY SAY THIS, WE RUN INTO THE SAME ITEMS ON COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL, WHETHER IT'S A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT OR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. 
          THEY'RE REQUESTING CHANGES TO THE LOT WIDTH IN DEPTH. 
          THEY'RE REQUESTING CHANGES TO SETBACKS, THEY'RE REQUESTING CHANGES TO LANDSCAPING, TO SIGNAGE. 
          SO EVEN THOUGH THE LAND USE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, MOST OF THEM ARE REQUESTING CHANGES TO THE SAME SECTIONS IN THE UDC AND THE SAME DESIGN STANDARDS. 
          YEAH. 
          AND USES THE BREADTH OF USE IS BEING ALLOWED, RIGHT? I MEAN, TO BE BLUNT, IT'S, IT'S NOT, IT'S TO ALLOW THINGS THAT THE ZONING CURRENTLY DOESN'T ALLOW BECAUSE THEY FEEL IT MAKES IT A MORE VIABLE PROJECT FOR THEM. 
          RIGHT? AND, AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. 
          BUT, BUT AGAIN, IT'S THIS ISSUE OF THEN WHY NOT LET SORT OF EVERYBODY DO IT? WHY NOT CHANGE THE CODE? I THINK, BUT, BUT IT, IT IS DIFFERENT. 
          I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK COMMERCIAL AND YOU'RE TRYING TO PUT LANDSCAPING, THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THESE, THESE ARE MANUFACTURERS, THESE ARE JOB PRODUCING COMMERCIAL SIGNAGE, YOU KNOW, SALES TAX, ALL THAT IS BEING CONSIDERED WHERE RESIDENTIAL, YOU'RE LOOKING AT SOMEONE THAT'S GONNA WATER THE GRASS. 
          SO LANDSCAPING IS NOT AS IMPORTANT WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT COMMERCIAL TO A RESIDENTIAL. 
          WHEN YOU'RE, YOU'RE, WHEN YOU HAVE TWO BUILDINGS THAT ARE RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER AND YOU'RE REQUESTING, UH, YOU'RE REQUESTING THE 
          [02:20:01]
LANDSCAPING BUFFER BETWEEN TWO OF THEM, YOU ACTUALLY HAVE RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER LANDSCAPING. 
          MM-HMM. 
          SO IT, IT, IT, IT IS DIFFERENT. 
          IT IS DIFFERENT. 
          SO THE MAYOR, WHAT WE WOULD SAY IS, SO LET ME OFFER THAT, AND I I TAKE THIS THE RIGHT WAY. 
          IF WE'RE INDIFFERENT TO THE AMOUNT OF LANDSCAPE BETWEEN COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS, THEN WE CAN COME UP HERE NEXT WEEK AND WE WILL HAVE A SAMPLE ORDINANCE THAT ELIMINATES THE REQUIREMENT FOR LANDSCAPING BETWEEN COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS. 
          AND SO WHEN YOU THINK ON SHIRTS, PARKWAY, WHERE WE HAVE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS, NEXT ONE ANOTHER, THE OFFICE PROJECT, ALL OF THAT LANDSCAPE BETWEEN THEM WILL GO AWAY AND IT'LL BE PAVING AND MORE BUILDING. 
          WE CAN DO THAT. 
          AND, AND I MEAN THIS SINCE TO HAVE YOU THINK ABOUT IT, RIGHT? YES. 
          BUT I, I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT TO DO AWAY WITH IT, I THINK THAT WE NEED TO, UH, ALLOW MORE FLEXIBILITY BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HAVE TREES RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER. 
          YOU, YOU INCREASE THE DISTANCE BETWEEN TREES SO THAT WHEN THE NEXT COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISE COMES IN, THEY PLANT THE TREE IN BETWEEN THOSE. 
          SO WE HAVE THE DIFFERENT, THE, WE HAVE THE STANDARD BEING MET BY TWO INDIVIDUALS AND NOT THE STANDARD BEING MET FOR BOTH OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME. 
          SURE. 
          SO WHAT WE COULD DO, AND THIS IS WE COULD SAY EITHER PROPERTY OWNER HAS TO PROVIDE THE LANDSCAPING AND WE COULD MAKE IT THE SECOND PROPERTY OWNER IN. 
          NOW, LIKELY WHAT STAFF WOULD HEAR IS, WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE HIM DO IT? WELL, BECAUSE WE WROTE THE ORDINANCE TO SAY IT THE SECOND GUY IN. 
          AND SO IF YOU'RE THE SECOND GUY IN, YOU SIMPLY HAVE TO DO IT. 
          NOW, WHAT WE COULD DO TOO IS WE COULD CUT THE STANDARD IN HALF, RIGHT? AND HAVE EACH OF 'EM DO HALF. 
          IT'S ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT THE STANDARD TO BE. 
          AND I THINK THIS IS WHERE STAFF SAYS, IF YOU FEEL LIKE WE HAVE MORE LANDSCAPING BETWEEN COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS THAN WE NEED, THEN WE CAN AMEND THE CODE AND WE CAN REDUCE THAT AMOUNT OF LANDSCAPING BETWEEN COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS. 
          THAT'S WHAT STAFF WOULD ADVOCATE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          IF WE SAY, LOOK, WE'RE ALWAYS OKAY WITH THIS. 
          IF WE WANT TO INCREASE THE SIGNAGE ALLOWED BY 50%, DOUBLE IT. 
          WE CAN AGAIN COME FORWARD NEXT WEEK WITH A SIGN ORDINANCE CHANGE THAT DOUBLES THE AMOUNT OF SIGNAGE FOR COMMERCIALS DEVELOPMENT. 
          HAPPY TO DO THAT. 
          BUT AGAIN, WHAT I WOULD OFFER IS WHEN YOU HAVE A CASE LIKE THE SUP WE HAVE FOR THE GAS STATION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THAT DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO BY RIGHT, IS TWICE AS MUCH SIGNAGE AS THEY WOULD CURRENTLY BE ALLOWED. 
          NOW, AGAIN, YOU MAY SAY, WELL, THAT'S FINE. 
          I WOULD BET THAT YOU WOULD START HEARING IN RESIDENCE, SAY, MY GUY, I GOT THIS HUGE SIGN. 
          RIGHT? THAT'S THE DRAWBACK. 
          THERE'S NOT A RIGHT OR WRONG. 
          RIGHT? I THINK WHAT STAFF WOULD SAY THOUGH, IS IF THE LOGIC OF THE PD D FOR COMMERCIAL IS THIS STUFF IS FINE, THEN UNLESS I'M IND THE CODE. 
          AND THAT WAY THE RULES ARE CLEAR FOR EVERYBODY. 
          BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS OUR CURRENT STANDARDS ARE, ARE HIGHER THAN THEY NEED TO BE. 
          THAT THAT'S ALL WE'RE ADVOCATING FOR. 
          MM-HMM. 
           NOW FOR YES. 
          I THINK THIS CORE, THIS, THE STAFF IS LOOKING FOR THAT CLEAR DIRECTION, THE DIRECTION TO MOVE FORWARD. 
          YEAH. 
          AND IN A, IN A CLEAR STANDARD, WE KNOW THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS, BUT IF THERE'S A, A CONSENSUS TO SAY LOWER STANDARDS FOR LANDSCAPING, THEN WE WOULD BRING IT BACK AT A LOWER STANDARD. 
          I GUESS THE QUESTION THE COUNCIL WOULD HAVE TO ASK ITSELF IS WHAT IS THE CHARACTER OF THE COMMUNITY? DO WE WANT TO HAVE, RIGHT? AND WHAT TYPE STANDARD DO WE WANNA MAINTAIN THAT THAT'S FOR Y'ALL TO DECIDE AS THE POLICY MAKERS. 
          CAN I, CAN I, UH, GO AHEAD. 
          I INTERRUPT YOU. 
          UH, I'M SORRY. 
          UH, COUNCIL MEMBER, I, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE TRYING TO SEPARATE THE TWO, BUT I, I THINK IT IS HARD, AND I DO THINK IT'S GONNA BE HARD TO TRY TO GET A CONSENSUS AMONG ALL OF US. 
          UH, I THINK THAT WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT IDEAS AND OPINIONS AND, YOU KNOW, LANDSCAPING TO ME IS IMPORTANT. 
          'CAUSE I DO CARE ABOUT THE AESTHETICS AND HOW OUR COMMUNITY LOOKS. 
          YEAH. 
          AND I THINK, AND SO, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THE, THE PDDS, I'VE, I'VE BEEN ON BOTH SIDES OF IT, AND I KNOW I'VE CAUSED CONFUSION TO THE STAFF AND PROBABLY TO THE OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS. 
          AND IT'S, IT'S BECAUSE I'VE BEEN STUCK ON THAT IDEA OF THE DIFFERENT, THE INNOVATIVE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE BENEFIT TO THE CITY. 
          AND I THINK THE FIRST ONE THAT, THAT I WAS A PART OF WAS THE SHIRTZ GATEWAY. 
          I THOUGHT IT WAS APPROPRIATE FOR THAT BECAUSE IT WAS SOMETHING DIFFERENT, INNOVATIVE FOR OUR COMMUNITY. 
          AND, AND SO I WAS IN FAVOR OF IT. 
          BUT THE ONES THAT CAME IN AFTER THAT WERE ALL WITH THE INTENT OF SKIRTING THE STANDARDS THAT WE HAVE SET. 
          AND THAT'S WHERE I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT, BECAUSE I DO THINK WE HAVE SOME SPECIAL THINGS ABOUT THE CITY THAT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD JUST GIVE UP ON THEM. 
          YOU KNOW? AND, AND I THINK THERE'S STANDARDS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE IN PLACE BECAUSE THERE ARE THINGS 
          [02:25:01]
THAT THE PEOPLE LIKE ABOUT THE COMMUNITY, THE WAY SOME OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS ARE, ARE, ARE BUILT THE SPACE BETWEEN THE HOUSES, A LOT OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE REALLY APPRECIATE. 
          AND I DON'T SEE IT AS BEING A BENEFIT WHEN SOMEBODY COMES IN, WELL, I WANT TO DO SMALLER HOUSES, LESS LANDSCAPING. 
          I WANNA DO THIS. 
          THAT EVERYTHING THAT WE LIKE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THEIR PROPOSAL IS. 
          SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I RUN INTO THE ISSUES WITH IT, IS LOSING THAT THOUGHT THAT THIS IS AN INNOVATIVE PROJECT THAT'S GONNA BENEFIT OUR COMMUNITY. 
          NOW I'M LOOKING AT IT AS WELL, IT'S JUST LOSING SOME OF OUR STANDARDS THAT WE'VE HAD IN PLACE AND WHAT HAS MADE SHIRTS WHAT IT IS. 
          SO THAT'S MY, OKAY. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN, I THOROUGHLY AGREE WITH, UH, COUNCILMAN MSO AS FAR AS, UH, YOU KNOW, MAINTAINING STANDARDS. 
          BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT DEPENDS. 
          I MEAN, JUST LIKE SIGNAGE AND VERDE, UH, UH, BUSINESS PARK, YOU KNOW, FOR BIG BUILDINGS, BIGGER SCIENCE MAKES SENSE VERSUS RETAIL CENTERS ON FM 1518, YOU KNOW, IT, SO IT DEPENDS. 
          SO WE NEED TO, YOU KNOW, FIND WHATEVER THAT STANDARD IS. 
          AND IF WE CONTINUE TO HAVE DEVIATIONS FROM 'EM THROUGH A PDD PROCESS, WHEN WE JUST HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL TO NOT, YOU KNOW, LET THE, THE DEVELOPERS WALK ALL OVER THE CITY, IF YOU WILL. 
          UH, BUT, UH, I THINK IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO SIT THERE AND GO THROUGH EVERYTHING THAT WE JUST DISCUSSED TONIGHT. 
          YOU KNOW, AND THERE'S A LOT MORE, THESE ARE JUST KIND OF SURFACE ITEMS, IF YOU WILL. 
          UH, AND, AND TRY TO, UH, PUT A, THIS ONE WILL GO HERE, THIS ONE WILL GO THERE. 
          THIS ONE HAS TO STAY HERE. 
          UH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE PDD PROCESS GIVES US THE FLEXIBILITY TO WORK WITH SOME OF THESE PEOPLE. 
          AND AGAIN, UH, I THINK WE COLLECTIVELY HAVE TO STICK AROUND WITH THAT, UH, THE INNOVATIVE DESIGN VERSUS, UH, I, I WANNA MAKE MORE MONEY DESIGNED AND, YOU KNOW, I, I'M ALL ABOUT CAPITALISM. 
          THIS IS AMERICA AND, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS AND, AND WHATNOT. 
          BUT JUST LIKE YOU SAID EARLIER, THE INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT TO DEVELOP IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S, UH, GUIDELINES, NOT, OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST GONNA PUT WHATEVER, UH, APARTMENT HERE, OR I'M GONNA PUT MY FACTORY OVER HERE, AND I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAY . 
          THAT THAT'S NOT, THAT IS NOT EFFECTIVE USE OF PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS. 
          BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO, UH, TO LET THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE, YOU KNOW, CHANGED, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE USE OF THE LAND HAS CHANGED OVER THE YEARS AS THE PEOPLE, UH, RETIRE AND MOVE OUT. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T HOLD THEM HOSTAGE EITHER. 
          YOU KNOW? UH, THERE'S SOMETHING INHERENTLY WRONG WITH THAT. 
          UH, BUT, BUT IF, UH, IF WE DON'T KEEP THE FLEXIBILITY OF A PDD, UH, I, I THINK WE'RE JUST KIND OF SHUTTING OURSELVES DOWN. 
          BUT WHAT, WHAT DO WE CHANGE? I DON'T KNOW. 
          'CAUSE IT DEPENDS WHAT ARE THEY COMING IN ON, YOU KNOW? IS IT, IS IT A LARGE MULTI-USE ONE, LIKE, LIKE CROSS LINES GOT A COMBINATION OF COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL IN THERE. 
          UH, MOST OF 'EM DON'T PUT THOSE INTO THEIR MASTER PLAN, OR THEY DID, UH, CORRECT. 
          MOST OF 'EM ARE JUST, JUST RESIDENTIAL OR JUST COMMERCIAL. 
          BUT, UH, STILL IT IS A WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT. 
          IDV OVER ON I 35 VERSUS, YOU KNOW, A GAS STATION ON 15, 18, UH, BOTH COMMERCIAL, YOU KNOW, AND, BUT TOTALLY DIFFERENT PROJECTS AND TOTALLY DIFFERENT AREAS. 
          SO, UH, AGAIN, THE STANDARDS I THINK WE NEED TO COLLECTIVELY, UH, AGREE ON. 
          AND MAYBE THAT'S AN A, A, A LARGER DISCUSSION AREA THAT WE COULD HAVE, UH, SOMETIME. 
          BUT AS FAR AS TRYING TO TELL YOU HERE AND NOW WHAT TO WORK ON, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WANTS LESS LAND LANDSCAPING. 
          I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WANTS, YOU KNOW, I, YOU KNOW, BIGGER SIGNS OR ANYTHING ELSE. 
          BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT DEPENDS, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THE PROJECT MAKES SENSE LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, IT'S A TOUGH ONE. 
          YEAH. 
          AND, AND YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'RE, TIM AND I ARE MOSTLY ON THE SAME PATH. 
          UH, 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, JUST AS YOU MENTIONED THE, THE SMALL BUSINESSES OFF OF SHEZ PARKWAY, YOU DON'T WANT A 20 BY 30 FOOT SIGN RIGHT OFF OF THE ROAD THERE. 
          BUT OBVIOUSLY IF IT'S AN INDUSTRIAL AREA OR IF IT'S IN A DIFFERENT AREA, YEAH, THAT MAKES SENSE. 
          AND IT'S NOT GONNA, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT GONNA BE AN ISSUE IN TERMS OF, OF THE VIEW THAT YOU'RE, THAT YOU HAVE. 
          SO I, I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH THAT UNLESS YOU CHANGED IT TO, TO POSSIBLE, YOU KNOW, INDUSTRIAL ONLY SIGNS CAN BE THIS SIDE. 
          AND, AND, AND WE KIND OF DO HAVE THAT JUST TO, TO TOUCH ON THAT POINT, RIGHT? ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STAFF HAS BEEN DOING IS RUNNING THROUGH THESE ORDINANCE CHANGES. 
          SO WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, AMENDED THE SIGNAGE GENERALLY FOR BIGGER BUILDINGS, SORT OF THOSE INDUSTRIALS TO DO BIGGER SIGNS ON THE BUILDING, RIGHT? IF YOU'RE ON 35, YOU 
          [02:30:01]
GET MORE SIGNAGE THAN IF YOU'RE ON A LESSER STREET, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT OUR CODE CURRENTLY DOES. 
          UM, AND SO I THINK, AGAIN, STAFF'S POSITION IS IF WE'VE HAD THESE THINGS LIKE THE PHILOSOPHICAL SIGNAGE AND INDUSTRIAL PARKS, BIGGER BUILDINGS ON 35 CAN BE BIGGER, THEN LET'S AMEND THE CODE TO ALLOW FOR THAT RATHER THAN TO SORT OF CASE BY CASE, DO IT WITH THE PDD, IF THAT MAKES THAT, IS THERE A WAY THAT YOU CAN DO THAT? UH, I MEAN SURE, SURE. 
          THERE, THERE IS, AND WE'VE KIND OF DONE THAT, RIGHT? WE'VE GOT, AND LET ME SAY THIS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, THAT WE'VE DONE OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS IS WE'VE REALLY GONE THROUGH AND MODIFIED SOME OF OUR STANDARDS. 
          AND, AND IN SOME WAYS, MAYBE THE WAY I DESCRIBED IT IS WE'VE RIGHT SIZED THOSE. 
          YEAH. 
          'CAUSE I REMEMBER WHEN, WHEN SOME ARE MORE APPROPRIATE AND WE'RE NOT GETTING AS MANY COMPLAINTS. 
          BUT I WILL TELL YOU, I THINK THE FUNDAMENTAL STAFF THING THAT STAFF FACES AND THOSE WHO ARE ON THAT COMMITTEE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, THAT WE HAD THAT EXAMPLE OF IF WE SAY YOU'VE GOT A 20 FOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFER, AND THE HYPOTHETICAL WAS, WELL, IF SOME GUY COMES IN AND HE'S GOT 19 FEET SIX INCHES, YOU GUYS WILL BE OKAY WITH THAT RIGHT? STAFF. 
          AND WE WOULD GO, WELL, IF WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT, I'M OKAY WITH 19 AND THEN I'M OKAY WITH 18. 
          AND IF I'M OKAY WITH 18, I'M OKAY WITH 17. 
          RIGHT? AND IT, IT CHIPS AND CHIPS, RIGHT? I MEAN, AT WHAT POINT DO YOU LOOK UP AND GO, WHY IS STAFF COMING AND RECOMMENDING 10 FEET? RIGHT? BECAUSE WE'VE, WE'VE CHIPPED AWAY AT IT AT SOME POINT, AND DAN WILL CHIME IN, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CONSISTENCY OF APPLICATION OF THESE STANDARDS AS OPPOSED TO IT BEING ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS AND YOU'RE JUST DOING THINGS A LITTLE BIT WILLY-NILLY. 
          AND THAT'S WHERE THE STANDARD, WHEN IT'S 20 FEET, IT, IT'S SORT OF 20 FEET. 
          AND THE, THE PERSON WHO'S LOOKING TO BUY THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY ON THE FRONT END JUST NEEDS TO KNOW, I'VE GOTTA ACCOUNT FOR A 20 FOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFER. 
          RIGHT? AS OPPOSED TO, I'M GONNA BE BLUNT. 
          SOMETIMES WHAT WE HEAR IS, OH, WE DIDN'T BOTHER TO LOOK AT YOUR STANDARD. 
          WE LAID THIS THING OUT AND THAT'S WHAT WE WANT. 
          AND NOW YOU NEED TO MODIFY YOUR STANDARDS TO FIT WHAT WE WANT. 
          I MEAN, WE LITERALLY HAVE, HAVE HEARD THAT. 
          AND THAT GOES BACK TO WHAT KIND OF COMMUNITY DO YOU WANT TO DO? YOU WANT TO SORT OF BE, AND THERE ARE OUTLETS FOR THIS STUFF. 
          I WANNA OFFER THAT YOU CAN GO TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND IF YOU CAN MAKE THAT CASE OF A PARTICULAR THING, THEN HAVE AT IT. 
          BUT THAT'S A PRETTY HIGH BAR. 
          NOT SIMPLY, IT JUST DOESN'T KIND OF WORK FOR ME. 
          YEAH. 
          MAYOR, IF I COULD, CAN I OFFER ONE COMMENT ON THE YES, GO AHEAD. 
          THE SIGNS, SO AN EXAMPLE WITH THE SIGNS ON SAY I 35, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SAY SOMEBODY WHO'S DOWN IN A, A SUB-GRADE AREA AND THEY WANT TO MAYBE EXCEED THE SIDE HEIGHT TO BE REASONABLY CLOSE. 
          IT'D BE IF THEY WERE AT GRADE OR CLOSE TO IT. 
          I MEAN, YOU COULD MAYBE MAKE AN ARGUMENT FOR THAT VERSUS, I WANT TO BUILD THIS RIGHT NEXT TO EVERYBODY ELSE AND I JUST WANT MY SIGN TO BE HIGHER. 
          SURE. 
          WE'VE, WE'VE HAD THAT REQUEST MM-HMM. 
           THAT I JUST WANT A BIGGER AND HIGHER SIGN THAN EVERYBODY ELSE HAS. 
          YEAH. 
          AND, AND THAT'S WHERE STAFF GETS A, IN A BOND AND WE GET IN A BIND BECAUSE WE SAY THAT OUR STANDARD IS THIS. 
          AND I, I THINK THEY HAVE TO MAKE THEIR THEIR CASE RIGHT. 
          TO B OF A, BOA TO, I KNOW. 
          I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE WHERE IT IS. 
          BUT IT'S AGAIN, A PRETTY HIGH STANDARD. 
          AND AGAIN, STAFF HAS NO PROBLEM IF WE SAY, LOOK, WE WANT, WE'RE TOO RESTRICTIVE ON SIGNAGE, LET'S AMEND THE CODE. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND THAT'S NOT TO GO CRAZY. 
          BUT AGAIN, I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT MOST OF WHAT WE'VE HAD KINDA COME IN, IT'S, IT'S NOT, IT'S HARD TO ARGUE. 
          IT'S MAKING IT BETTER FOR THE COMMUNITY. 
          IT MAY BE MAKING THE PROJECT MORE VIABLE. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND SO HAVING THE PROJECT VERSUS NOT HAVING IT, WE MAY SAY IS BETTER FOR THE COMMUNITY. 
          THAT WOULD BE THE LOGIC OF IT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IF YOU'RE ON 3 0 0 9, IS THERE A AMOUNT OF, HAS IT CHANGED IN THE LAST TWO YEARS THAT ONE SIGN IS ONLY ALLOWED? DID Y'ALL CHANGE THAT? BECAUSE I'M NOT UP TO DATE WITH THAT. 
          LIKE IF YOU HAVE THE BUILDING AND YOU'RE GOING ON 3 0 0 9 MM-HMM. 
          , IS IT JUST ONE SIGNAGE, ONE SIGN THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO PLACE ON THE BUILDING, INCLUDING THE, THE MARKER? NO, WE MADE MODIFICATIONS TO THAT. 
          I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S ACTUALLY BEEN CHANGED THOUGH. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          SO FOR, FOR WALL SIGNAGE, UM, DEPENDING ON, ON YOUR ROADWAY CLASSIFICATION, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A LARGER SIGN, BUT YOU'RE ALLOWED THREE WALL SIGNS, BUT IT'S ONE SIGN PER BUILDING FACE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. 
          RIGHT? YEAH. 
          SO I THINK WE DID TWEAK, AND THE COMMITTEE MAY REMEMBER THIS FROM OUR PROJECT ON 3 9 9 WHERE YEAH, PART OF THE CHALLENGE ON THE CODE IS IF YOU'VE GOT A 10 ACRE TRACT OF LAND VERSUS YOU'VE GOT A HALF ACRE TRACT, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE SENSE THAT THE 10 ACRE TRACT CAN'T HAVE MORE SIGNAGE. 
          AND I THINK WE TACKLED THAT TO TRY TO DEAL, AND LET ME BE CLEAR, THAT'S WHAT STAFF WOULD SAY WE SHOULD DO. 
          IF WE HAVE THESE PROBLEMS, LET'S 
          [02:35:01]
LOOK AT THE CODE AND MAKE A CODE AMENDMENT. 
          BUT WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO DO IS JUST PIECEMEAL IT FOR EVERYBODY KIND OF THING. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER HAYWARD. 
          SO I WAS GONNA SAY, BEING ON THE SUBCOMMITTEE AND COMING UP WITH THOSE THINGS, I REMEMBER THE ISSUE AND THEY HAD TO GO TO BOA WAS MURDOCH'S AND THE MSI, RIGHT? BECAUSE THEY WANTED THEM BIGGER BECAUSE OF THEIR LOCATION OFF OF 35. 
          AND THEN MURDOCH'S BECAUSE THEY WANTED THE ROUND SIGN AND IT DIDN'T MEET THE SPECIFICATIONS. 
          THEY WANTED TO, THEY WANTED MORE SIGNS THAN THE WAY OUR CODE LAID IT OUT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, AND WE HAD THAT DISCUSSION ON SIGNS AND I REMEMBER THAT. 
          SO IS THERE A WAY TO SAY, IF YOU ARE IN THIS LOCATION, YOU GET, YOU CAN GET THIS, I MEAN, 'CAUSE I'M TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO GIVE YOU YEAH, WE CAN DIRECT, BECAUSE LET ME SAY THIS. 
          WE CAN WRITE THE SIGN CODE TO BE VERY, AND I'M GONNA SAY THIS TO BE VERY PARTICULAR TO THE SITUATION, RIGHT? IT'S GONNA MAKE IT TRICKIER. 
          OKAY? TRICKIER IS MORE COMPLICATED. 
          SO YOU GOTTA WEIGH THE BENEFIT OF, HEY, IT'S MORE NUANCED VERSUS NOW IT'S TRICKIER. 
          IT'S MORE CONFUSING. 
          YOU GET PEOPLE GOING, I THOUGHT I COULD DO THIS. 
          WELL NOW THAT'S A DIFFERENT SCENARIO, DIFFERENT SECTION, RIGHT? MY POINT IS, WE CAN CHANGE THE UDC AS MUCH AS WE WORK ON THAT. 
          AND AS TRICKY AS WE MAKE IT AND AS NUANCED AS WE MAKE IT, I BET YOU DOLLARS TO DONUTS, SOMEBODY'S GONNA WANT SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE'LL STILL HAVE PEOPLE WALK IN AND SAY, RIGHT? BECAUSE IT'S THAT HERE'S THE LANDSCAPE BUFFER'S 20 FEET, I WANNA DO 19 SIX. 
          WELL, YOU LET THAT GUY DO 19 SIX, I WANNA DO 19 FOUR, WELL I WANNA DO 1811. 
          RIGHT? I MEAN YOU'RE, IT'S THAT YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE THAT AS MUCH AS WE TRY TO WORK ON ORDINANCES. 
          AND THAT FUNDAMENTALLY IS THE THING THAT IS AT THE CRUX OF THE ISSUE, RIGHT? AND IT'S A POLICY QUESTION. 
          I'M GONNA GO BACK IS YOUR ANSWER, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL? YEAH. 
          IT DOESN'T REALLY HURT A WHOLE LOT TO LET 'EM REDUCE THE STANDARDS VERSUS IS YOUR VIEW OF IT, LOOK, WE SET THE BAR THAT WE WANT SHIRTS TO BE LIKE THIS, RIGHT? WE WANT SHIRTS TO BE SHIRTS. 
          WE DON'T WANT SHIRTS TO BE LIKE, AND THEN I WON'T NAME THE COMMUNITY, RIGHT? HOUSTON , NOW THAT COME, I WASN'T NAMING THE ONE. 
          DOES IT COME FROM TML, PRESIDENT  CAN'T SAY THAT ANYMORE, SENATOR. 
          RIGHT? I MEAN EVERYBODY'S DIFFERENT. 
          YES. 
          BUT, BUT THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO IS, IS WHY ARE WE DOING THESE THINGS BECAUSE STAFF GETS HIT. 
          I MEAN, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF REQUESTS WOULD YOU SAY THEY'RE WANTING? SOME EXCEPTION TO THE RULE THAT COME IN COUNCIL JUST IN GENERAL NOW THAT WALK IN THE DOOR WITH YOU GUYS EVERY PROJECT, RIGHT? I WOULD SAY EVERY PROJECT COMES IN AND ONCE DOESN'T WANNA DO A 20 FOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFER, DOESN'T WANNA DO THE REQUIRED NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES. 
          MOST OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, STAFF HANDLES AND, AND WE WORK THROUGH DURING THE SITE PLAN PROCESS. 
          BUT, BUT, BUT LET ME SAY WHAT THAT MEANS. 
          WHAT THAT MEANS IS STAFF SAYING, NO, YOU HAVE TO DO THIS. 
          WE'RE NOT GONNA SUPPORT YOU. 
          DA DA DA DA DA. 
          PUTTING OUR FOOT DOWN. 
          AND THEN YOU GUYS HEAR, STAFF IS DIFFICULT. 
          STAFF IS MEAN. 
          GOD, THEY'RE NASTY PEOPLE AND STAFF, RIGHT? BUT, BUT UNDERSTAND THAT'S OUR WORLD. 
          LITERALLY EVERYBODY WALKS IN. 
          SO IF WE'RE SETTING THE STANDARD COUNCIL IS SETTING THE STANDARD, THEN WHEN SOMEBODY CALLS US AND SAYS STAFF IS DIFFERENT, DIFFICULT, THEN OUR RESPONSE SHOULD BE STAFF IS DOING WHAT WE'VE, WE HAVE SET POLICY FOR. 
          AND WE'RE NOT CHANGING IT BECAUSE WE DON'T NEED TO KEEP LOWERING OUR STANDARDS FOR EVERY LITTLE SITUATION. 
          LEMME SAY THIS, IT'S FAIR TO ASK HOW IS STAFF BEING DIFFICULT? RIGHT? WELL THAT'S, THAT'S FAIR TO ASK. 
          AND I MEAN THAT SINCERELY, RIGHT? 'CAUSE IF THEIR ANSWER IS STAFF HAS TAKEN TOO LONG, THAT'S A THING, THEN THAT'S A DIFFERENT THING. 
          BUT IF THEY'RE LIKE, WE WANT TO DO THIS REDUCTION IN STANDARD, RIGHT? THEN WE GO, NO, IT'S NOT, STAFF ISN'T BEING DIFFICULT, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE'RE SETTING THE POLICY. 
          THAT'S THE STANDARD WE SORT OF SET. 
          AND BEING ON THAT PANEL AND GETTING READY FOR THAT PANEL AND REALIZING THE DIFFERENT THINGS AND WHY CITIES ARE THE WAY THEY ARE. 
          EVERY CITY IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF THE RESIDENTS THAT LIVE THERE AND THE COUNCILS THAT ARE HEARING FROM THE RESIDENTS TO BE A CERTAIN WAY. 
          SHIRTS WANTS TO BE SHIRTS THE WAY WE SEE IT, WE ARE TRYING TO BE A, I DON'T KNOW, WE HAVE THE STANDARD OF WE WANT THE, THE PARKING SPOTS, WE WANT THE LANDSCAPING, WE WANT THINGS TO LOOK NICE. 
          WE ARE NOT TRYING TO HAVE THOSE BIG HUGE SIGNS OFF OF I 35 THAT SOME NEIGHBORHOODS TO THE NORTH HALF AND I WON'T NAME 'EM. 
          AND IN DOING THAT DEEPER DIVE, IT'S LIKE WE SET THE STANDARD AND WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT NO MATTER WHAT IT IS. 
          AND IF PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO COME AND DEVELOP IN OUR CITY BECAUSE WE HAVE SET A STANDARD, 
          [02:40:01]
THEN THEY CAN MOVE ON DOWN THE ROAD. 
          BUT AS FAR AS THE PDS, I THINK IT THAT ONE, IT DEPENDS BECAUSE EVERY PROPERTY IS GONNA BE KIND OF DIFFERENT AND THE, MAYBE THE STRAIGHT ZONING DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK. 
          OR LIKE THEY BROUGHT IN HERITAGE JOKES THAT WAS DIFFERENT. 
          THEY DIDN'T WANT TO DO THE 1960 ZONING. 
          SO HOW DO WE GET WHAT WE WANT IN STRAIGHT ZONING? BECAUSE TYPICALLY IN STRAIGHT ZONING, LIKE THE ONE WE JUST DID WITH THE R TWO AND R SIX, THEY'RE ACROSS THE STREET FROM EACH OTHER. 
          HOW DO YOU DO STRAIGHT ZONING WITH THE R SIX AND R TWO INTERMINGLED? WOULD THAT BE THE WAY WE SET IT UP OR IS THAT A PDD? YEAH. 
          AND, AND SO LET, LET ME OFFER THIS UP. 
          I THINK THAT YOU HAVE A WAY TO DO STRAIGHT ZONING, RIGHT? TO TO, TO MIX THOSE USES. 
          THERE'S ALSO SOMETHING TO BE SAID WHERE SOMEBODY WALKS IN AND SAYS, LOOK, JUST TO MAKE IT MORE CLEAR WHERE THE R SIX IS, WHERE THE R SEVEN IS, WHERE THE R TWO IS, RIGHT? I WANT TO DO A PDD TO LAY THAT OUT. 
          AND COUNSEL SAYS THAT'S HELPFUL BECAUSE I WANNA MAKE SURE RESIDENTS CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT BIGGER LOTS ARE GONNA BE NEXT TO THEM. 
          THEN, THEN, THEN TO SOME DEGREE I WOULD SAY THAT IS SORT OF A NEUTRAL PDD, BUT THAT'S INTENDED TO MAKE IT BETTER. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , RIGHT? THAT'S INTENDED TO MAKE IT BETTER. 
          BUT WHEN THEY WALK IN AND SAY, OH, BUT BY THE WAY WE WANT TO INCREASE THE LOT COVERAGE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHERE EMILY HAD THAT SLIDE. 
          IF YOU GO BACK UP TO WHERE THEY HAVE THOSE SORT OF TRADE OFFS, MM-HMM. 
           THE NEXT ONE DOWN, RIGHT? IT'S THE, IT'S THE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GOING UP ON SOME STANDARDS AND THEY'RE GOING DOWN ON THE OTHER A LOT OF TIMES WHERE THEY'RE GOING UP ON THE STANDARD, IT'S NOT REALLY UP GOING UP, RIGHT? THEY'RE JUST USING IT TO JUSTIFY WHY THEY WANT TO DECREASE THE STANDARD IN SOMEPLACE ELSE. 
          AND SO AGAIN, PHILOSOPHICALLY YOU CAN USE A PDD FOR THOSE REASONS. 
          SO AGAIN, THE APARTMENT CASE THAT WE HAD COME IN, YOU COULD DO A PD DD TO SAY, LOOK, GENERALLY I'M OKAY WITH APARTMENTS THERE, BUT I WANNA MITIGATE SOME OF THE POTENTIAL NEGATIVES ON THIS. 
          I WANT TO KEEP 'EM OFF THAT PARTICULAR ACCESS DRIVE. 
          I WANNA CAP THE NUMBER OF UNITS, RIGHT? IT'S JUST TOO MANY THERE. 
          EVEN THOUGH IT'S PROBABLY UNREASONABLE, IT'S CA THE UNITS, I WANNA INCREASE THE SETBACK FROM THE ADJACENT PROPERTY. 
          AND SO I WOULD BE WILLING TO DO A PDD TO INCREASE THE STANDARD TO TAKE THIS THING AND MAKE IT BETTER. 
          RIGHT? LET ME GIVE YOU THE FLIP THOUGH. 
          IT'S THE PROJECT THAT TRACT OF LAND THAT'S ZONED R TWO, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL LARGE LOT. 
          IT'S GOT SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL AROUND IT. 
          THERE'S NOTHING ON THE SORT OF OTHER SIDE TO CAUSE THAT TO BE WRONG WITH R TWO. 
          WHY WOULD YOU, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A CROWD OF RESIDENTS ALL SHOWING UP. 
          'CAUSE WE'VE SEEN IT SAYING DON'T REDUCE THE LOT SIZE, DON'T INCREASE THE NUMBER OF LOTS. 
          WHAT'S THE PHILOSOPHY ON CHANGING THAT? RIGHT? THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THE ZONING TODAY. 
          IT'S PREFERABLE TO THE RESIDENTS. 
          IT'S LESS TRAFFIC, IT'S MORE ELBOW ROOM. 
          THIS JUST DEVELOPER WANTS TO DO SMALLER LOTS TO GET 20% MORE LOTS IN OR 30% MORE LOTS. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S THE PHILOSOPHICAL APPROACH UNDERPINNING OF IT. 
          AND NOTHING YOU CAN DO WITH A PDD IS REALLY GONNA OFFSET THAT STUFF, RIGHT? IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF LIPSTICK ON A PIG. 
          SO THEN ARE YOU JUST SAYING WE JUST GO WITH I I'M SAYING I'M ASKING FOR DIRECTION FROM COUNSEL. 
          THAT'S WHAT STAFF IS LOOKING. 
          YOU WANT, I KNOW THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. 
          SO ARE YOU KIND OF LOOKING FOR US TO SAY WE WANT JUST STRAIGHT ZONING AND LET'S CHANGE SOME THINGS? OR DO YOU, ARE YOU OKAY WITH SAYING LIKE, COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN SAID IT DEPENDS. 
          IT'S, IT'S STAFF IS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND COUNCIL'S PHILOSOPHICAL APPROACH. 
          LIKE I WILL SAY THIS, WHEN I FIRST STARTED HERE, I CLEARLY REMEMBER PEOPLE ON COUNCIL SAYING, AND MEANING IT SINCERELY, THIS IS THE STANDARD WE SET IN SHIRTS. 
          IF YOU'RE NOT GONNA MEET THE STANDARD, THEN YOU SHOULD GO TO A DIFFERENT COMMUNITY, RIGHT? AND THEY MEANT THAT SINCERELY AND HAPPY TO HAVE THAT PROJECT WALK OUT THE DOOR. 
          NOW THEIR IMPLICATIONS TO THAT. 
          AND SO THINGS EBB AND FLOW OVER TIME. 
          AND SO IT'S FAIR TO SAY, HAVE WE GONE TOO FAR WITH THAT AND WE'RE NOT HAVING ENOUGH HAPPEN? AND SO I WOULD SAY THAT UP UNTIL MAYBE TWO YEARS AGO, YEAR AND A HALF OR SO AGO, WE WENT THROUGH A SPELL WHERE GENERALLY THE VIEW WAS, IS THIS REALLY A PROBLEM? WHY ARE WE BEING SO HARD? RIGHT? AND WE'VE KIND OF STARTED TO COME BACK, THIS IS ME BEING REALLY HONEST WITH YOU IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, UNLESS IT'S MAKING THE COMMUNITY BETTER, 
          [02:45:01]
UNLESS IT'S REALLY IMPROVING THE STANDARDS, WE, WE DON'T NEED TO BE APPROVING THESE REASONS ZONE. 
          AND WE DON'T NEED TO BE DOING A BUNCH OF PDDS TO REDUCE THE SETBACKS AND THE LOT COVERAGE IN THE IMPERVIOUS. 
          RIGHT? AND IF WE NEED TO RIGHTSIZE OUR CODE, LET'S RIGHTSIZE OUR CODE, BUT WE STILL WANNA BE SURES ABOUT IT. 
          NOT WHATEVER. 
          UNNAMED CITY IS THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER WESTBROOK. 
          I, I WON'T . 
          ALRIGHT, SO I'M TRYING TO RECTIFY EVERYTHING IN MY MIND. 
          SO WHAT I'M HEARING IS NOBODY WANTS TO REDUCE STANDARDS, THAT'S STRAIGHT ZONING. 
          UM, BUT THEY STILL WANT SOME FLEXIBILITY IN TERMS OF PDD. 
          UM, AND SO NOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PDD SHOULD BE USED SPARINGLY AND BASED BASED UPON THIS, UH, THIS SLIDE HERE IS WHAT IS THE COMMON DENOMINATOR WHEN USING A PDD? WHAT'S THE COMMON DENOMINATOR PRICE? THAT'S IT. 
          WHAT'S THE PRICE? WHAT ARE WE WILLING TO REDUCE STANDARDS? AND ARE YOU WILLING TO USE A PDD TO REDUCE STANDARDS? OR ARE YOU ONLY WILLING TO USE A PDD TO SAY, LOOK, I WANNA MAKE THIS PROJECT BETTER, SO I'M GONNA INCREASE STANDARDS WITH PDD UNLESS IT'S REALLY A UNIQUE PROJECT. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT OH YES. 
          BUT IF YOU GO BACK TO THE SLIDE, GO BACK TO THE, UH, TO THE DEVELOPMENT, THE COLORED SLIDE. 
          SEE A BUNCH OF D'S THERE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO THE PRICE IS WHAT DO WE GET FOR THE, FOR THE PRICE FOR THOSE DS? BETTER LANDSCAPING. 
          I, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S OUR PRICE? WHAT HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN A COMMON DENOMINATOR? WHAT'S BEEN THE PRICE TO GET THOSE DS? IS IT JUST BETTER LANDSCAPING? YEAH, I THINK IT'S VARIED OVER TIME, RIGHT? SO I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENED IS IT'S, WHAT WE'VE DONE IS VARIED, RIGHT? SO WITH CROSS FIND, WE GOT A WHOLE LOT MORE LANDSCAPE AND OPEN SPACE. 
          WE LOCKED IN A FAIRLY UNIQUE DEVELOPMENT FOR HERITAGE OAK. 
          WE GOT A VERY DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENT OFF WHEELERS, STEIN CHURCH PARKWAY THAN REALLY WE SEE ANYWHERE. 
          I MEAN TO ME, YOU CAN CLEARLY SAY WE'RE GETTING SOMETHING DIFFERENT BETTER THAT STANDS OUT IN OUR COMMUNITY, RIGHT? THE OTHERS, I'M NOT SURE WE GET A WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT. 
          BUT SEE THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. 
          IF NOBODY UNDERSTANDS THE PRICE AND IT JUST FLUCTUATES, IT JUST GOES UP AND DOWN. 
          WELL THE D WILL ALWAYS, BUT THESE, THIS IS A THREE YEAR WINDOW. 
          THIS IS THE LAST THREE YEARS. 
          RIGHT? THE ONES YOU REFERENCED ARE OUTSIDE OF THAT WINDOW. 
          THAT'S RIGHT. 
          SO REFERENCING BACK TO BRIAN'S NOTICE OF A CHANGE OVER TIME, WHAT IS THE CURRENT COUNCIL'S PRICE FOR GETTING A D IN OUR COMMUNITY? THAT THAT'S WHAT IT BOIL DOWN TO ASKING. 
          THAT'S THE QUESTION. 
          SO THESE WERE DEVELOPMENTS IN SOUTH CHURCHS AND WE WERE TRYING TO ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT IN SOUTH CHURCHS. 
          SO I THINK THAT'S WHY SADDLEBROOK HAYS COLE, KAMA RANCH AND STERLING GOLD GROVE GOT APPROVAL WITH THE PDDS BECAUSE WE WERE TRYING TO GET DEVELOPMENT DOWN THERE AFTER CROSS VINES BEING A TURF IS, THAT WOULD BE GETS WHAT I REMEMBER US AS COUNCIL TRYING TO SOMETHING I'M NOT CRITICAL. 
          AND SO AGAIN, THAT'S THAT PHILOSOPHICAL RIGHT WHERE I STARTED. 
          IF WE WANT TO HAVE MORE DEVELOPMENT HAPPEN, THEN WE'RE WILLING TO MAKE THESE ADJUSTMENTS TO MAKE THAT DEVELOPMENT HAPPEN. 
          YES. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER DAVIS. 
          YEAH, I MEAN I I I'M LOOKING AT THIS FROM A DIFFERENT WAY. 
          UM, I CERTAINLY DON'T WANNA LOWER OUR STANDARDS. 
          WE HAVE OUR STANDARDS AND I THINK WE NEED TO MAINTAIN OUR STANDARDS AS THE BASELINE. 
          UM, STRAIGHT ZONING IS CERTAINLY AN OPTION. 
          YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A, WE HAVE A, A COMP PLAN THAT WE LAID OUT FOR THE CITY AND WE SAID THIS AREA'S GONNA BE COMMERCIAL, THIS AREA'S GONNA BE RESIDENTIAL. 
          AND WHEN THE PLANET'S ALIGNED PERFECTLY, YOU HAVE A P YOU HAVE A PARCEL OF LAND THAT SOMEONE SAYS, I WANNA DO R TWO ON AND THEY CAN MEET ALL THE STANDARDS, IT'S DONE. 
          YEP. 
          SOMEBODY ELSE LOOKS AT IT AND SAYS, WELL, I'D RATHER DO R SIX. 
          I CAN DO R SIX ON THIS THING. 
          MEET ALL THE STANDARDS WE'RE DONE. 
          TO ME, THE DIFFERENCE IS EVERY PARCEL IS UNIQUE. 
          OKAY? YOU MAY SOMEBODY, ONE DEVELOPER MAY LOOK AT A PARCEL AND SAY IT'S R SIX AND I CAN MEET ALL THE STANDARDS. 
          HERE'S MY PLAN, HAVE A NICE DAY. 
          BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT DRAINAGE ISSUES, YOU'VE GOT ALL THE KINDS OF ISSUES. 
          SO, I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A DEVELOPER LOOKING AT A, A PARCEL OF LAND AND SAYING, HERE, HERE'S MY TAKE ON IT. 
          I MEAN, IF THEY WANT TO COME IN WITH A PROPOSED PDD AND EXPLAIN TO THE STAFF AND COUNSEL ON WHY THEY WANT TO DEVIATE TO SOME DEGREE, WHETHER IT'S A MIXTURE OF ZONING, WHETHER IT'S, UM, A HEIGHT VARIANCE, WHETHER IT'S A DENSITY VARIANCE. 
          IF, IF THEY 
          [02:50:01]
WANT TO ASK THE QUESTION, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT BECAUSE TO ME IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE SITE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. 
          IF THEY CAN MAKE A GOOD CASE AND EXPLAIN WHY I CAN'T DO TWO SPOTS PER LOT AND I WANNA DO 1.75. 
          AND I, AND I, I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN, YOU KNOW, ONE GUY ASKED FOR 1.75, ONE GUY'S GONNA ASK FOR 1.5, SOMEONE'S GONNA COME IN AND SAY, I WANT ONE SPOT. 
          I I GET THAT. 
          UH, AT THE END OF THE DAY, I, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. 
          I'D RATHER SAY, OKAY, WHAT ARE YOU PROPOSING? AND MAKE THAT DECISION ON HOW DOES THAT BENEFIT THE COMMUNITY? YOU MAY BE PROPOSING SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT MEET OUR UDC AND BECAUSE OF THAT SPECIFIC UNIQUE LOCATION, YOU KNOW, WE, WE GOT A 20 FOOT LANDSCAPING BUFFER. 
          WELL, IF THE STANDARD'S A 20 FOOT LANDSCAPING BUFFER AROUND THE ENTIRE PROPERTY, BUT THERE'S ONE AREA NEXT TO IT THAT'S COMMERCIAL THAT YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU CAN'T GET A FULL 20 FOOT, ARE YOU GONNA TURN AROUND AND SAY NO TO A GOOD DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE IT'S GOT A 20 FOOT LANDSCAPING BUFFER EVERYWHERE. 
          EXCEPT FOR, YOU KNOW, SO, SO IF I MAY, LET ME, LET ME ASK THIS. 
          'CAUSE I, I, I HEAR YOU. 
          AND, AND I THINK IF I LOOK TO EMILY, I CAN GUARANTEE WHAT HER ANSWER IS 99% OF THE TIME. 
          THE REASON THEY CAN'T DO THAT IS THEY SIMPLY WANT TO BUILD MORE ON THAT PROPERTY THAN OUR CODES ALLOW THEM TO BUILD. 
          YOU KNOW, I, AND I WANNA BE CLEAR, THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. 
          THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. 
          BUT AGAIN, I, I THINK OUR STAFF IS TALENTED ENOUGH TO SIT THERE AND SAY, WELL, WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING IN THAT REDUCED SETBACK IS SO THAT YOU COULD INCREASE THE DENSITY AND THEY CAN SIT THERE AND SAY, THAT'S JUST NOT GONNA FLY. 
          I MEAN, BUT, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT, YOU LOOK AT DIMENSIONS AND DESIGNS, YOU LOOK AT LANDSCAPING STUFF, SCREENING AND FENCING, PARKING. 
          AGAIN, TO ME, TO ME, A LOT OF THESE THINGS ARE SITE SPECIFIC. 
          UM, SO, SO DO YOU TURN AROUND AND DO WE HAVE A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT NOW IN THE CITY OF CHURCH THAT NEVER DEVELOPS BECAUSE NONE OF OUR BASELINE ZONING SORT OF FITS WELL ON THAT PARCEL. 
          SO, SO IF I, AND, AND I APPRECIATE THAT. 
          AND SO, SO IF I MAY, LET ME, LET ME SORT OF ASK THIS, OR LET ME, LET ME SORT OF SAY THIS. 
          SO GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE BASIS FOR REDUCING THE LANDSCAPE BUFFER ON ONE SIDE WOULD BE. 
          IT COULD BE FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THE ADJACENT DEVELOPMENT. 
          UH, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU WERE PUTTING IN A RESIDENTIAL LOT AND NEXT TO IT IS SOME KIND OF COMMERCIAL SPOT, IF YOU'VE GOT A FENCE, IF WE HAVE A FENCE REQUIREMENT IN THERE MM-HMM. 
          , DO WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE A FULL 20 FOOT BUFFER? I MEAN THAT, THAT, TO ME, THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT MIGHT, MIGHT BE A VIABLE OPTION ON THE COMMERCIAL. 
          SO THE COMMERCIAL HAS THAT 20 FOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFER NEXT TO RES. 
          AND SO IN THIS CASE, THE DEVELOPER WALKS IN AND SAYS, LOOK, I DON'T WANT TO PUT IN A 20 FOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFER ADJACENT TO THE RESIDENTIAL. 
          AND AGAIN, HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT WOULD THE REASON BE. 
          I, I THINK IT'S BASED ON THE SITE CONSTRAINTS MYSELF. 
          OKAY. 
          LIKE I SAID, EACH, TO ME, EACH PARCEL IS UNIQUE. 
          YEP. 
          UM, SO WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, I HAVE A HARD TIME JUST SAYING, LET'S TAKE THIS ZONING AND JUST THROW IT ON THIS PARCEL AND EVERYTHING'S GONNA LINE UP. 
          RIGHT. 
          I, I WOULD THINK THAT ON ANY PARCEL OF LAND, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME KIND OF, OF DESIGN OR CONSTRUCTION CONSTRAINTS. 
          YEP. 
          WHETHER THAT'S BASED ON DRAINAGE, WHETHER THAT'S BASED ON, UH, UH, ACCESS POINTS OR EGRESS POINTS. 
          UM, I, I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU. 
          EVERY SITE IS UNIQUE AND HAS ITS OWN SPECIFIC ISSUES. 
          AGREE WITH YOU ENTIRELY. 
          YOU KNOW, SO TO ME TO SIT THERE AND SAY, WELL, IT'S EITHER BASELINE ZONING, RIGHT? FIGURE IT OUT. 
          I, I, AGAIN, I DON'T, I DON'T MIND SOME FLEXIBILITY. 
          YOU KNOW, WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE AT? I, I GUESS THAT'S HARD FOR ME. 
          IT'S HARD TO SAY. 
          I, I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT, WELL, WHAT ARE YOU PROPOSING AND WHY? OKAY. 
          UM, YEAH, NO, I, AND, AND I APPRECIATE THAT. 
          I THINK THIS IS THE CHALLENGE, RIGHT? YOU GET A DEVELOPER WHO WALKS IN AND SAYS, LOOK, THIS IS MY PROJECT FOR THIS THING TO WORK. 
          I NEED TO PUT A 5,000 SQUARE FOOT OFFICE BUILDING THERE AND I CAN SHOW YOU THESE FACTORS THAT I'VE GOT THAT CAUSE ME NOT TO BE ABLE TO PUT THAT 5,000 SQUARE FOOT OFFICE BUILDING ON AND MEET YOUR STANDARDS. 
          AND SO I WANNA REDUCE THIS PARTICULAR STANDARD, OR I'LL DO THIS ONE 
          [02:55:01]
SIX AND ONE HALF DOZEN THE OTHER SO I I CAN MAKE MY PROJECT WORK. 
          THAT'S THAT. 
          THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. 
          RIGHT? THIS GOES BACK TO WHAT'S THE PHILOSOPHY IS ARE WE WILLING TO SAY NO TO THAT? OR AGAIN, IS THAT A VALID REASON? BECAUSE AGAIN, I'LL COME BACK LITERALLY, ALMOST EVERYBODY WALKS IN THE DOOR WITH THAT, RIGHT? AND, AND THAT I THINK IS THE CHALLENGE FOR STAFF IS, IS IS HOW WE APPROACH THIS MAYOR, WELL, LET ME RECOGNIZE COUNCIL MEMBER, UH, HAYWARD. 
          OKAY. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER, UH, MEMBER PRO 10 WESTBOROUGH. 
          OKAY? SO BASED UPON THE THEORY RIGHT HERE, MOST OF THE DS ARE IN THE, UH, WHAT DOES DIM STAND FOR? DIMENSION, DIMENSIONS AND DESIGN. 
          ALRIGHT, SO WHAT ABOUT IF WE ELIMINATED SOME OF THE CATEGORIES, RIGHT? IN ORDER TO NARROW IT DOWN FOR YOUR STAFF, KEEP DIMENSIONS AND DESIGN. 
          'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE MOST OF THE DS ARE COMING FROM, KEEP PARKING. 
          THAT SEEMS TO BE A CONSISTENT THEME FOR SOME OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS. 
          UH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ADDITIONAL DESIGN IS, BUT MAYBE YOU ELIMINATE SOME OF THE CATEGORIES. 
          SO YOU DON'T GET A PDD FOR LANDSCAPING. 
          YOU DON'T GET A PDD FOR ARTICULATIONS. 
          YOU DON'T GET A-D-P-D-D FOR GENERAL OUTDOOR STORAGE. 
          AND SO YOU NARROW THE STANDARDS. 
          BUT, BUT AGAIN, I'LL GO BACK, RIGHT? SO LET ME GO WITH THE EXAMPLE DEVELOPER WALKS IN ON THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY. 
          SAYS, FOR MY PROJECT TO WORK, GIVEN WHAT I'M PAYING THE PROPERTY OWNER FOR THAT LAND, I NEED TO PUT A 5,000 SQUARE OFFICE BUILDING. 
          THE WAY FOR ME TO DO THAT IS TO DECREASE THE LANDSCAPE BUFFER BECAUSE THE TENANTS I'M GONNA GO AFTER ARE GONNA WANT A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PARKING. 
          SO I CAN'T REDUCE THE PARKING. 
          AND, AND ARE Y'ALL REALLY GONNA LET ME DECREASE THE, THE STORM WATER RUNOFF AND FLOOD THE GUY DOWNSTREAM? WELL, NO, PROBABLY NOT. 
          SO THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT IS TO DECREASE THE LANDSCAPE BUFFER. 
          MAN, THAT'S A, THAT'S A FAIRLY COMMON THING, RIGHT? AND, AND I HAVE NO REASON TO DOUBT THE GUY, WHETHER THAT'S ACCURATE OR NOT. 
          I, I HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER HIS PROJECT MAKES OR NOT. 
          HE'S TELLING ME IT ONLY MAKES IF HE, IF HE DOES THAT. 
          AND, AND SO THAT'S AGAIN, THIS, THIS QUESTION. 
          AND SO STAFF IS PERFECTLY FINE. 
          AND I MEAN THIS, IF COUNCIL'S DIRECTION IS, LOOK, DON'T, DON'T POUND THESE FOLKS SO MUCH. 
          WRITE UP THE PD AND RUN IT UP THE FLAGPOLE AND, AND WE'LL TELL YOU IF WE'RE OKAY WITH IT OR NOT. 
          I THINK P AND Z IS GONNA SAY, WELL, HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHAT TO RECOMMEND? RIGHT? I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S A LITTLE BIT OF THE CHALLENGE WITH IT IS, IS, IS HOW DO WE KNOW? 'CAUSE THE ANSWER MAY BE TO THE GUY, LOOK, YOU NEED TO DO THE LANDSCAPE BUFFER. 
          YOU NEED TO DO A 4,500 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING THEN. 
          AND IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT, 'CAUSE YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE LAND, YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO THE PROPERTY OWNER AND SAY, LOOK, YOUR LAND ISN'T BIG ENOUGH TO BE VIABLE. 
          I CAN'T PAY YOU THIS, I NEED TO PAY YOU THAT FOR IT. 
          RIGHT. 
          THERE'S NOT A RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER 'CAUSE RIGHT. 
          THERE'S A DRAWBACK MEANS WE DON'T GET A PROJECT THAT MAY BE A GOOD PROJECT. 
          OTHERWISE, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE, THAT'S WHERE THIS STUFF IS HARD. 
          RIGHT? AND SO AGAIN, IF WE, IF WE LOOK AT THE DEVELOPER WHO CAME IN IN NORTH CLIFF WITH THE INFILL PIECE AND ALL OF THE THINGS HE REQUESTED DIFFERENT, THAT'S THE SAME ARGUMENT HE MADE TO US. 
          LET ME TELL YOU WHY I NEED TO GET THESE THINGS FOR THIS PROJECT TO WORK, RIGHT? BUT WE HEARD SOMEONE COUNCIL SAY, BUT I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THAT DOING THE PDD AND WE SEEM TO REDUCE THE STANDARDS, RIGHT? THERE'S NOT A RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER TO THIS. 
          WHAT I THINK STAFF IS LOOKING FOR IS CLARITY. 
          AND WHAT WE NEED Y'ALL TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT, NOT TO BE JADED, BUT, BUT IT IS A LITTLE BIT, GIVE AN INCH, TAKE A MILE, RIGHT? AND IF WE WANNA LOOK AT IT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, THAT'S CERTAINLY FINE. 
          THEN STAFF NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THE MESSAGES. 
          LOOK, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE HAVING PROJECTS COME IN. 
          BUT, BUT, BUT SEE TO ME IT'S, THIS IS NO DIFFERENT THAN A ZONING ISSUE. 
          OKAY? SO, SO IF, IF, IF SOMEBODY COMES IN AND SAYS, I'M LOOKING TO BUY THIS PROPERTY, IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED RESIDENTIAL, BUT I WANNA REZONE IT COMMERCIAL BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE I CAN MAKE THE MOST MONEY. 
          RIGHT? OKAY, GOOD TO KNOW. 
          HOWEVER, OUR PLAN SAYS THIS IS GONNA BE RESIDENTIAL OR IT'S GONNA BE COMMERCIAL. 
          WE DON'T WANNA PUT RESIDENTIAL THERE. 
          TO ME, THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE IN THE CASE THAT YOU, THAT YOU REFERENCED IN NORTHCLIFF, YOU KNOW, FOR, FOR WHATEVER. 
          IT'S THE SAME THING FOR WHATEVER DEAL THAT THEY WANT TO MAKE FOR THAT LAND. 
          YOU KNOW, TO, FROM MY PERSONAL THING WAS IS THEY'RE COMING IN THERE WITH TWO DENTS OF AN OPTION. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , YOU KNOW, AND AGAIN, HAD THEY COME IN AND SAID, WELL, EVERYTHING AROUND IT'S R SIX, I WANNA BUILD R SIX. 
          AND IF THEY WOULD'VE COME BACK AND SAID, I GOTTA CHANGE A GATE OR I GOTTA CHANGE A ROAD, I MEAN, OKAY. 
          BUT IT'S, IT'S, IT'S SUITABLE FOR THAT AREA. 
          IT'S, IT'S, TO ME IT'S BASED ON THE 
          [03:00:01]
PROPERTY AND, AND WHAT THEIR PLAN AND VISION IS, WHAT THE PLAN AND VISION IS FOR THE CITY. 
          AND, AND, AND SO I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT. 
          AND SO LET ME GO BACK WHERE I TALKED EARLIER. 
          IT REALLY IS HOW WE APPROACH THIS REZONE. 
          SO ON THE ONE HAND, RIGHT, IF YOU'VE GOT R SIX ALL THE WAY AROUND AND THEY COME IN TO ASK FOR R SIX, RIGHT? UNLESS WE'RE MISSING SOMETHING THAT SEEMS TO BE FAIRLY REASONABLE, RIGHT? RIGHT. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND, AND SO WE WOULD AGREE. 
          AND SO THE THE ONE POSITION TO TAKE IS, YEAH, THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. 
          YOU NEED TO ASK FOR R SIX AND WE'RE GENERALLY GOOD WITH IT, RIGHT? AND, AND, AND IT'S THAT PHILOSOPHY OF DOES THIS PROJECT MAKE THE COMMUNITY BETTER OR NOT? AND, AND, BUT AGAIN, AGAIN, MY MY POINT IS LIKE CASE IN POINT, THE CASE AT UP AT THE OLD GOLF COURSE, THEY COULD HAVE COME IN THERE AND SAID, I WANNA PUT IN FOUR, THREE STAR STORY APARTMENT BUILDINGS, MULTI-FAMILY ON THAT LOT. 
          AND, AND THAT LOT COULD HAVE TURNED AROUND AND MET ALL OF THE UDC STANDARDS FOR LANDSCAPING, SETBACK, PARKING. 
          THEY COULD HAVE COME BACK AND SAID, I WANT TO INCREASE MY, UH, LANDSCAPING, I WANT TO INCREASE MY SCREEN AND FENCING. 
          I WANT TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF SCREENS AND I WANT TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF PARKING. 
          ME PERSONALLY, I WOULD'VE SAID, THAT'S NOT THE SPOT TO PUT THREE OR FOUR, THREE STORY APARTMENT BUILDINGS SURROUNDED BY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL IN ITS CURRENT SETTING. 
          I MEAN, SO THEY COULD HAVE COME BACK IN WITH A PDD WHERE THEY WERE ASKING FOR NOTHING THAT WAS A DEVIATION FROM THE STANDARDS AND THEY COULD HAVE COME IN WITH SEVEN OR EIGHT AREAS WHERE THEY'RE DOING NOTHING BUT INCREASING THE STANDARDS. 
          AND ME PERSONALLY, I WOULD'VE SAID, NO, I, AND SO LET ME GO BACK. 
          IT'S THIS WHERE WE TALKED, RIGHT? SO YOU HAVE THIS FUNDAMENTAL INITIAL LOOK IS, IS WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR AT ALL APPROPRIATE OR NOT? AND IF THE ANSWER IS IT'S NOT STICKING MULTIFAMILY THERE IS NOT APPROPRIATE, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU GO STRAIGHT ZONING OR HOW MUCH YOU DRESS IT UP WITH A PDD TO ADD, IT'S FUNDAMENTALLY NOT APPROPRIATE. 
          RIGHT? AND, AND SO REALLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS HERE'S THIS THING THAT IT, IT COULD BE APPROPRIATE, BUT THERE ARE A FEW NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES AND SO I CAN MITIGATE THOSE THROUGH A PDD, RIGHT? THAT WOULD BE THE ALTERNATIVE. 
          BUT IF IT'S FUNDAMENTALLY THE LAND USE ISN'T APPROPRIATE, IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE AND THE ANSWER SHOULD BE NO. 
          RIGHT? AND THEN THE HARD THING IS IF THEY CAME IN WITH R SIX AND WE, AND, AND GENERALLY IF OUR VIEW WAS, WELL YOU GOT R SIX AROUND IT, THAT SEEMS PERFECTLY FINE. 
          AND THEY SAID, BUT I WANT TO INCREASE THE LOT COVERAGE BY 10%. 
          THEY'RE GONNA TELL US ALL THE REASONS WHY THAT HAS TO HAPPEN. 
          AND THERE'S NO WAY FOR US TO KNOW WHETHER THEY'RE GOING, OH LOOK, WE CAN LIVE WITH IT THE WAY IT IS, BUT JUST LET'S TRY TO GET THE INCREASED LOT COVERAGE, RIGHT? I MEAN THAT'S 'CAUSE WE HAVE PEOPLE TELL US, OH, THIS THING WON'T WORK. 
          AND WHEN WE PUSH AND PUSH AND PUSH, THEN SOMEHOW IT WORKS. 
          NOW WE ALSO CAN HAVE SOME THAT WALK AWAY. 
          SO I THINK THAT'S THE CHALLENGE. 
          SO AGAIN, WELL AGAIN, AGAIN, FOR ME, I MEAN I, I HAVE FAITH IN THE STAFF, UM, AND, AND LIKE I SAID, I LOOK AT, AT EACH PARCEL IS POTENTIALLY UNIQUE. 
          BUT IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE SAYING IF IT'S CAUSING THIS MUCH ANGST TO THE STAFF TO TRY TO FIGURE THIS OUT, THEN TO ME, THEN THE ONLY SOLUTION IS JUST GO IT STRAIGHT ZONING. 
          YEAH. 
          AND SAY YOU EITHER YOU BUY A PIECE OF PROPERTY AND YOU CAN, IF, IF IT'S ZONED THE WAY YOU WANT IT, THEN YOU CAN BUILD WITHIN THAT ZONING CASE SOLVED. 
          OR IF IT'S, IF YOU WANT TO ZONE INTO SOMETHING ELSE, YOU CAN GO THROUGH THE ZONING PROCESS KNOWING THAT YOU'RE GONNA GO THROUGH THE ZONING PROCESS AND WHATEVER YOU'RE GONNA PROPOSE IS GONNA MEET THE UDC A HUNDRED, A HUNDRED PERCENT. 
          YEAH. 
          AND LEMME SAY THIS, I DON'T KNOW. 
          IT'S AS MUCH, AND, AND, AND YOU MAY NOT ADMIT IT THIS WAY, OR YOU MAY HAVE, AND IT'S, I DON'T KNOW, IT'S AS MUCH ANGST TO STAFF, BUT IT'S THE CONFLICT AND IT'S THE DISRUPTION WE GET ON SOME OF THESE CASES GOING FORWARD. 
          SO LET ME TAKE THE APARTMENT CASE OFF DI NOT HILL. 
          IF THE VIEW OF COUNSEL WAS THAT ZONING MAY BE APPROPRIATE, BUT I CAN MITIGATE A FEW OF THE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES THROUGH A PDD, RIGHT? WE CAN ELIMINATE THE USE OF THAT ROAD COMING OFF 35. 
          WE CAN CAP THE NUMBER OF UNITS, WE CAN INCREASE THE BUFFER AND THE SETBACKS FROM THOSE, THOSE PROPERTIES. 
          AND THAT WOULD'VE GOTTEN THE PROJECT THROUGH. 
          THAT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN A MORE POSITIVE OUTCOME THAN WHERE WE ARE TODAY, WHICH IS 
          [03:05:01]
THERE'S NOT REALLY A CLEAR IDEA OF WHAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE GOING FORWARD. 
          RIGHT. 
          THAT I THINK IS THE ANSWER. 
          AND IT'S, IT'S NOT HELPFUL WHEN A DEVELOPER RUNS THESE THINGS IN SAYING, YEAH, I THINK, I THINK I'M IN GOOD SHAPE ON THIS DEAL. 
          AND THEY SORT OF HIT THIS BRICK WALL AND THEY GET DENIED AND THEY'RE WALKING OUT GOING, WHAT? WHAT HAPPENED? STAFF? RIGHT. 
          I, IT'S ALSO NOT HELPFUL WHEN THE RESIDENTS DON'T SORT OF KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT IN TERMS OF THE STANDARD AND HOW WE VIEW IT. 
          RIGHT. 
          AGAIN, I'LL GO BACK TO THE NORTH CLIFF QUESTION IN TERMS OF WHAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THAT PROPERTY, RIGHT? IF WE HAVE SOME CLARITY AND VISION OF HOW WE LOOK AT THINGS AND NOT EVERY SINGLE TIME, BUT IT'S THAT 90% OF THE TIME, RIGHT? WE'RE SAYING, YEAH, GENERALLY WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE WITH WHERE WE'RE HEADED AND OCCASIONALLY WE'RE NOT AND THAT'S OKAY. 
          THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN. 
          I THINK THAT'S WHAT STAFF IS, IS AFTER. 
          AND AND, AND AGAIN, IT'S THE, TO BE BLUNT TOO, IT'S THE SPLIT VOTES ON COUNCIL THAT WERE ONE OFF FROM ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. 
          NOW MAYBE THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS AT THE END OF THE DAY, BUT IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO SORT OF FIND SOMETHING THAT WORKS BETTER FOR US, RIGHT? THAT THAT SORT OF MEETS MORE NEEDS, EXPANDS THE PIE AND GET A BETTER DECISION, THAT SEEMS TO BE A BETTER SOLUTION. 
          AND IT WON'T ALWAYS, BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE JUST HAVE THESE FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES OF VIEW COUNCIL MEMBER HAYWARD. 
          SO IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE STILL KIND OF GOING AROUND IN A CIRCLE. 
          'CAUSE WE'RE, IT DEPENDS STRAIGHT ZONING. 
          WE HAVEN'T COME TO A CONSENSUS THE WAY I'M HEARING IT AND IT'S LIKE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT REALLY, I GUESS WHAT STAFF IS WANTING FOR US. 
          BECAUSE SOME OF US ARE SAYING IT DEPENDS ON THE PROPERTY, IT DEPENDS IF WE'RE GETTING SOMETHING OUT OF IT. 
          I DON'T KNOW HOW WELL THAT'S HELPING YOU IN MAKING A DECISION. 
          BECAUSE I GO BACK TO THE MEETING WE HAD WITH THE APARTMENTS AND THE ISSUES WE HAD IT PASSED BEFORE THEN IT DIDN'T WITH THE GAS STATION AND WHAT WE DID. 
          YEAH. 
          AND SO IT JUST KIND OF SENT PROBABLY STAFF IN A SPIRAL GOING, WHAT THE HECK THIS IS. 
          SO I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN BE CLEARER OR GIVE US DIRECTION ON HOW WE CAN BE CLEARER TO SAY IT DEPENDS ON IF THEY'RE GIVING US SOMETHING BETTER THAN WE DO A PDD. 
          IF THEY'RE NOT, IT'S LIKE THIS IS OUR, THIS IS THE REQUIREMENTS, THIS IS OUR STANDARD. 
          YOU EITHER MEET IT OR MOVE ON DOWN THE ROAD. 
          AND IF WE ARE OKAY WITH THAT, THEN THAT'S THE DIRECTION WE NEED TO GIVE YOU. 
          SO, SO LET ME, LET ME SAY THIS. 
          I THINK IF COUNCILMAN DAVIS' POINT WAS, LOOK, I DON'T WANT STAFF TO BE SO OVERLY RIGID THAT IT'S NO TO EVERYTHING ON A PDD. 
          WE GET THAT, RIGHT? WE, WE, WE GET THAT AND, AND WE CAN WORK WITHIN THAT. 
          AND I THINK, THINK WE CERTAINLY HAVE, I I THINK, I THINK THERE'S THIS FUNDAMENTAL HOW YOU LOOK AT THESE REZONING REQUESTS OR SUVS, RIGHT? AND SO LET ME TAKE THE SUP FOR THE GAS STATION CONVENIENCE STORE THAT SORT OF HAD A MIXED VOTE VOTE CHANGE BETWEEN IT WAS SEEMED TO BE A TOUGH ONE FOR, FOR MOST PEOPLE, RIGHT? ONE WAY TO LOOK AT THAT IS WHAT'S THE REASON TO GRANT THIS SUP FOR SOMETHING THAT'S A MORE INTENSIVE USE THAT LIKELY IS GONNA HAVE LONGER HOURS, THAT'S LIKELY GONNA HAVE MORE TRAFFIC THAT LIKELY IS GONNA HAVE THE ISSUE OF PEOPLE FILLING UP CARS WITH GAS AND THINGS THAT SORT OF COMES WITH THAT, THAT LIKELY IS GONNA HAVE LIGHTS ON LATER AT NIGHT. 
          THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SPILL OVER WHEN YOU SIT OUT IN YOUR BACKYARD, YOU'RE GONNA BE LOOKING UP AT LIGHTS LONGER. 
          RIGHT? AND THEN THE FLIP IS THAT WHILE YOU WOULD SAY, WELL THERE'S A NEED FOR A GAS STATION DOWN IN THAT AREA, WHICH I THINK THERE IS JUST 'CAUSE THERE'S A GAS STATION FIVE MILES AWAY. 
          I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT'S VIABLE. 
          BUT YOU COULD CERTAINLY SAY, WHY WOULD WE NOT RATHER HAVE THAT GAS STATION DOWN AT LOWER SINE ROAD IN 1518? THAT SEEMS A BETTER LOCATION. 
          THAT SEEMS MORE VIABLE AND YOU CLEARLY HAVE MULTIPLE CORNERS WHERE THAT COULD GROW AND THAT THE LESS INTENSIVE RETAIL WOULD BUFFER. 
          SO YEAH, WE DO WANT A GAS STATION AND THAT GENERAL AREA, BUT THAT'S NOT REALLY THE SPOT FOR IT BECAUSE LIKELY WHAT WE WOULD GET FROM THE CURRENT ZONING IS MORE COMPATIBLE WITH THAT RESIDENTIAL USE. 
          AND THE FLIP SIDE I'LL GIVE IS, YOU KNOW, RESTAURANT AND DRIVE THROUGH, LAST THING YOU WANNA PROBABLY LIVE NEXT TO IS A BURGER KING. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , WHICH IS ONE OF THE SMELLIER KIND OF RIGHT. 
          USED TO, BUT IF YOU'RE NEXT TO A STARBUCKS THAT'S NOT SO BAD. 
          THEY TEND TO CLOSE EARLY. 
          THEY OPEN EARLY, BUT RIGHT. 
          IT, WE DON'T, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THAT FUNDAMENTAL UNDERLYING PHILOSOPHY OF WHY WOULD WE GRANT AN SUP 
          [03:10:01]
THERE AS OPPOSED TO SAY WE'RE WILLING TO TELL 'EM NO BECAUSE THERE ARE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES AND THERE'S ANOTHER VIABLE LOCATION. 
          NOW THE FLIP SIDE IS, WELL HOW LONG ARE WE ON A WHITE TO GAS STATION COMES HERE. 
          RIGHT? I MEAN THERE, THE REASON WHY THAT TO ME IS THE THING THAT SORT OF NEEDS TO GET SETTLED. 
          IT'S THE NORTH CLIFF PIECE OF, LOOK, YOU'RE BOUGHT THIS PIECE OF LAND THAT'S PART OF A GOLF COURSE THAT'S GONE OUTTA BUSINESS, THAT EVERYTHING IS DEVELOPED AROUND IT. 
          SO THE BAR ON THE REDEVELOPMENT IS FRANKLY GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT HIGHER AND YET YOU REALLY NEED TO COME IN WITH R SIX AND, AND PROBABLY NOT SOMETHING DENSER THAN THAT. 
          AND YOU JUST KIND OF NEED TO KNOW THAT. 
          WHEREAS WE WOULD SAY YEAH, UP ON 35, WE'RE NOT GONNA PUT SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL UP ON 35. 
          SO THAT'S GONNA BE COMMERCIAL OF THE RIGHT. 
          BUT IF YOU'RE COMING INTO THE NORTH CLIFF AREA, THAT NEEDS TO BE SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED. 
          RIGHT? I MEAN TO ME, IF YOU START WITH THAT RIGHT, THEN THAT HELPS YOU TO FRAME THIS UP AND THAT HELPS YOU THEN ABOUT HOW A PDD WOULD WORK, RIGHT? HERE'S SOMETHING THAT GENERALLY IS MAYBE APPROPRIATE, BUT I CAN MAKE IT BETTER. 
          IT'S A VALID USE OF A PDD. 
          HERE'S SOME REALLY UNIQUE FACTOR WITH THAT PROPERTY THAT CAUSES US NOT TO FIT. 
          AND IT'S A GOOD PROJECT ALL THE WAY AROUND AND, AND THEY'VE DONE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT WE'VE LOCKED IN AND THAT'S A WAY TO TRADE OFF. 
          THAT'S A, THAT'S SORT OF A REASON TO DO IT. 
          AND THAT COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN. 
          YEAH. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          NO COMMENT. 
          NO. 
          OKAY. 
          MR. WILLIAMS, YOU HAD A COMMENT? OH, I'M SORRY. 
          I WAS JUST GONNA SAY REAL FAST, I THINK EVERYTHING THAT RYAN JUST ARTICULATED WOULD FIT ME, YOU KNOW, PRETTY WELL AND I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD THINK IT WOULD FIT MOST OF THE OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS PRETTY WELL. 
          UH, WOULD ANYBODY DISAGREE WITH THAT? MM-HMM. 
          I THINK WHAT BRIAN SAID FITS NO, THIS, THIS COUNCIL HAS A FULL CONFIDENCE OF, OF THE STAFF TO MAKE DECISIONS. 
          WELL, IT'S JUST, WELL YEAH, SOME OF OUR, I THINK WE HAVE A COUPLE OF THINGS TOO. 
          OKAY. 
          AND I, I WANT TO MAYBE DRAW THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN SAY A REZONE OR AN S YEAH. 
          AN SUP AND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS, RIGHT? AND IT, WE, WE NEED DIRECTION IN BOTH IN IN ESSENCE, RIGHT? DO WE, DO WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY NO, I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO SAY IT, BUT IS THE COUNCIL OKAY WITH US SAYING NO? UNLESS THERE IS SOME COMPELLING REASON TO BRING SOMETHING FOR NOT, NOT NECESSARILY SAY NO, BUT, OR SAY, YEAH, YOU KNOW, GENERALLY SPEAKING THAT WE ARE NOT GONNA SUPPORT THIS. 
          WE, WE ARE NOT GOING TO SUPPORT SOMETHING THAT IS NOT AT THE STANDARD AND THAT DOES NOT MAKE THE COMMUNITY GENERALLY BAD AND IT DOES NOT MAKE THE COMMUNITY GENERALLY BETTER. 
          OR THERE'S SOME SORT OF WIN-WIN SCENARIO FOR SOME SORT OF EXCEPTION, RIGHT? THAT TALK DEALING WITH THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS WHEN IT COMES TO A REZONE, I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT OR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. 
          A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT SCENARIO, BUT WE NEED SIMILAR DIRECTION. 
          WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE TONE OF THE COUNCIL AND, AND I THINK IT'S ABOUT THE PRESENTATION. 
          IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT THE PRESENTATION. 
          TO ME, IF YOU ADDRESS THEIR CONCERNS TRAFFIC FOR THE DANTE ONE, IT WAS THAT ROAD. 
          IF THEY, IT WAS SPECIFIC IN REGARDS TO WHAT IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE OR IS IT PART OF IT, IT WAS JUST REALLY CONFUSING. 
          MM-HMM. 
           THAT WASN'T ADDRESSED. 
          IF THEY CAN COME IN AND YOU HAVE THE PICTURES THAT LOOK GREAT, EVERYBODY CAN DECIDE, ESPECIALLY 15, 18, IF THEY HAVE ALL THREE OF 'EM, I THINK THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, SOLVE EVERYTHING. 
          YEAH. 
          SO DID, AND THEN FOR THE EMOTIONAL RESIDENTS AND BECAUSE IT'S VERY EMOTIONAL AND THEN YOU DON'T WANNA GO, YOU KNOW, AGAINST THE RESIDENTS OBVIOUSLY NEVER TO DO THAT. 
          BUT IF YOU GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO LOOK AT, THEY'RE GOING TO APPRECIATE IT MORE AND SAY, OKAY, WELL YOU KNOW, LET'S GO AGAIN. 
          YEAH. 
          SO I MEAN I THINK THE DEN KNOT HILL ZONING CASE IS ONE THAT STAFF WOULD SAY YOU COULD USE A PDD TO DEAL WITH SOME OF THE POTENTIAL NEGATIVES ON THAT. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND, AND GET EVERYBODY THERE. 
          BECAUSE WHAT I DIDN'T HEAR REALLY, IS ANYBODY ON COUNCIL SAYING I'M JUST FUNDAMENTALLY OPPOSED TO ANY MULTIFAMILY ON THAT. 
          I DIDN'T HEAR THAT REALLY. 
          AND MAYBE THERE WAS THINKING IT, BUT, BUT FUNDAMENTALLY WHAT I HEARD WERE THERE ARE ASPECTS TO THAT THAT ARE PROBLEMATIC HERE. 
          RIGHT? WHEREAS, LET ME GO BACK. 
          THE FIRST CASE WE HAD ON CILO FARMS, RIGHT OFF SAVANNAH, THAT WAS ONE THAT THEIR FIRST REQUEST, IT WAS FOR A MULTIFAMILY THING. 
          AND I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH YOU CAN DO TO MITIGATE THOSE THINGS BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DID, THE RESIDENTS WOULD SAY, I WOULD RATHER HAVE THE CURRENT 
          [03:15:01]
R TWO DARE. 
          THERE'S NO REASON THAT'S NOT VIABLE AND YOU CAN'T TELL ME THAT THAT DOESN'T INCREASE TRAFFIC. 
          YOU KNOW THAT, THAT, THAT WOULD BE LESS TRAFFIC THAN THE REZONE ON SAVANNAH. 
          THEY'RE, THEY'RE RIGHT. 
          RIGHT. 
          I MEAN, THEY'RE RIGHT. 
          I MAY NOT AGREE WITH THEM ON THE SCHOOL OVERCROWDING. 
          'CAUSE YOU CAN LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING UP AT PASCAL AND THEY'VE LOST POPULATION, BUT IT'S A VALID POINT ON THE TRAFFIC. 
          IT'S A VALID POINT. 
          WHY WOULD YOU WANNA DO SOMETHING DENSER THAN OUR DEVELOPMENT? IT'S, IT'S HOW WE APPROACH IT. 
          AND THAT WOULD SEEM TO BE ONE OF THOSE. 
          SO I MEAN, AGAIN, THE HARD PART OF THIS, AND I'M GONNA SAY THIS AGAIN AND I'LL TRY TO QUIT TALKING. 
          IT'S, IT'S TELLING SOMEBODY, YEAH, GOOD PROJECT, BUT WRONG LOCATION DOESN'T FIT HERE. 
          AND AND FUNDAMENTALLY THAT'S THE CASE. 
          WE CAN'T IMPROVE THOSE THINGS WITH THE PDD AND THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          IF THERE'S SOMETHING REAL UNUSUAL AT THE PROPERTY, WE'LL LOOK AT A PDD, WE GET THAT ON THOSE PERCENTAGE, BUT NOT EVERYBODY WALKS IN THE DOOR. 
          BUT PDDS SHOULD MAKE THINGS BETTER AND REZONINGS SHOULD GENERALLY MAKE THE COMMUNITY BETTER. 
          OR IF NOTHING ELSE BE NEUTRAL. 
          RIGHT? AND SO IF YOU GOT 40, 50 RESIDENTS UP HERE OPPOSED TO IT PROBABLY SAYING IT'S NOT REALLY MAKING THE COMMUNITY NEUTRAL OR BETTER. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN, YOU WRAPPED IT UP PRETTY GOOD THERE. 
          UH, LIKE, UH, , UH, COUNCILMAN DAVIS SAID THERE, HE TRUSTS THE STAFF. 
          WE'VE GOTTA TRUST THE STAFF TO MAKE THOSE CALLS, TO INITIATE THOSE CALLS. 
          AND, AND OF COURSE IF THE CUSTOMER, YOU KNOW, PERSISTS, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN ALWAYS GO UP, CAN'T THEY? YEAH. 
          WE, LEMME BE CLEAR, WE ALWAYS TELL 'EM, LOOK, IF YOU DON'T, IF YOU WANT MONEY, YOU SPEND MONEY, TELL US WHAT YOU WANNA PUT AND WE'LL RUN IT UP THE FLAGPOLE. 
          WE'RE NOT GONNA RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF IT. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT WHERE THEY GET HUNG UP IS THEY DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. 
          THEY WANT STAFF ON BOARD AND THAT'S THE ROUND AND ROUND. 
          BUT YEAH. 
          IF THEY EVER TELL US, YEAH, GREAT STAFF, THANKS, BUT I JUST WANT TO GO WE'LL, WE'LL SEND IT. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          GET IT ON THE NEXT AGENDA. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          THAT, YOU KNOW, AND UH, UH, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, US COLLECTIVELY, YOU KNOW, KEEPING STANDARDS, UH, YOU KNOW, GOING WITH THE HIGHER STANDARD AND MAINTAINING IT THERE VERSUS THE 19 FOOT, YOU KNOW, STANDARD  YEAH. 
          ON A 20 FOOT RULE. 
          YEAH, THAT'S THE HARD ONE. 
          'CAUSE ON ITS SURFACE YOU'RE LIKE, GEEZ, IT'S JUST GOING FROM 20 TO 19 SIX UNTIL YOU RUN THROUGH THAT, YOU'RE LIKE, MM-HMM, . 
          OKAY, NOW WE'RE DOING SEVEN FEET. 
          WELL, WITH THAT, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER HERE, WHEN YOU HAVE FINAL THOUGHTS OR DID YOU FORGET TO TURN OFF YOUR BUTTON? ? I WAS GONNA HAVE FINAL THOUGHTS, BUT I'LL PASS . 
          NO, AND, AND I, I THINK THIS COUNCIL AGREES WE'RE, I MEAN WE, WE DO HAVE THE CONFIDENCE IN STAFF TO RECOMMEND OR DENY, UH, AND IT WILL BE UP TO THE APPLICANT WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANNA COME ALL THE WAY TO COUNCIL. 
          AND, AND I'M SURE THAT IF THIS COUNCIL DECIDES, UH, EVEN AFTER YOU RECOMMEND A DENIAL THAT THIS COUNCIL DECIDES IT'S OKAY AND APPROVED, WE'D DONE THAT BEFORE. 
          AND I KNOW IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR INPUT WAS NOT CONSIDERED. 
          UH, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF OPINION ON THE PROJECT ITSELF. 
          ALL ALL UNDERSTOOD AGAIN, DOESN'T HURT STAFF'S FEELINGS. 
          YEAH. 
          AND AS I SAID, WHEN WE SIT DOWN AND YOU VOTE, WE'RE GONNA TRY TO MAKE THAT SUCCESSFUL EITHER WAY. 
          WHAT REASON WE KIND OF CAME THIS WAY IS WE, WE WE SEE, UM, TUMULT THAT OCCURS, RIGHT? THAT, THAT AT TIMES WE THINK IS THERE A WAY TO GET THERE? SOMETIMES THERE'S NOT. 
          YEAH. 
          WELL, NUMBER ONE, YOU KNOW, HAVING 40 OR 50 PEOPLE OUT THERE CHANGES, CHANGES A LOT. 
           AND I, I ALWAYS TRY TO WATCH PLANNING AND ZONING, YOU KNOW, BEFORE WE GET HERE SO I GET A BETTER FEEL FOR HOW THEY CAME ACROSS. 
          AND SOMETIMES IT MAY COME UP HERE AS RECOMMENDED APPROVAL AND THERE WAS A LOT OF QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, OR VICE VERSA. 
          YEAH. 
          I ALSO THINK WHEN, WHEN THERE'S ISSUES AND PEOPLE ARE HAVING ISSUES, BECAUSE WE ARE NOW SAYING WE HAVE FAITH IN STAFF. 
          IF WE WANNA ASK THE QUESTION, WE CAN ASK THE QUESTION. 
          BUT WE SHOULDN'T BE SAYING, WELL STAFF, WHY DID YOU, LET'S JUST FIND OUT WHAT WAS THE REASON. 
          BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE LIKE WE'VE HAD BEFORE, TALK ABOUT THAT. 
          AND I THINK WE, IF WE'RE TRUSTING THE STAFF, WE HAVE TO TRUST THAT YOU'VE GIVEN THEM THE RIGHT INFORMATION AND WE JUST GOTTA YEAH. 
          BUT, BUT WHAT ALWAYS THIS STAFF IS PERFECTLY FINE WITH YOU SAYING STAFF, WHY DID YOU DO THIS? THAT THAT IS NOT AN ISSUE WHATSOEVER. 
          WE, WE HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. 
          RIGHT? WHERE, WHERE WE RUN INTO A DISCONNECT IS TOO MANY TIMES WHERE STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF STUFF AND IT'S GETTING 
          [03:20:01]
DENIED SIX, NOTHING. 
          RIGHT? THAT THEN WE'D START TO SAY, HOW ARE WE ON A DIFFERENT PAGE THAN COUNCIL? I THINK YOU GUYS BEING PROACTIVE AND LOOKING FOR PLACES WHERE THINGS THAT CAUSE A LITTLE BIT OF ANGST AND IDENTIFYING THOSE AND BEING PROACTIVE, I THINK THAT HELPS US GET WHERE WE NEED TO BE AND WHERE THE STAFF NEEDS TO BE. 
          BUT WE HAVE FULL FAITH IN THE STAFF TO DO THEIR JOB AND WE'RE OKAY WITH YOU TELLING PEOPLE. 
          NO, I UNDERSTAND. 
          I AM ANYWAY. 
          ALRIGHT, THANKS. 
          THANKS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          IT'S THE CLEAR AS MUD. 
          YEAH. 
          ALRIGHT, WE DO 
          [   Closed Session]
HAVE TWO CLOSED SESSIONS. 
          UH, ITEM NUMBER 17, THE CITY COUNCIL WILL MEET IN CLOSED SESSION UNDER SECTION 5 51 0 8 7 OF THE TEXAS GOVERNMENTAL CODE DELIBERATIONS REGARDING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT NEGOTIATIONS. 
          CLOSED MEETING THE GOVERNMENTAL GOVERNMENTAL BODY IS NOW REQUIRED TO CONDUCT AN OPEN MEETING. 
          ONE TO DISCUSS OR DELIBERATE REGARDING COMMERCIAL OR FINANCIAL INFORMATION THAT THE GOVERNMENTAL BODY HAS RECEIVED FROM A BUSINESS PROSPECT THAT THE GOVERNMENTAL BODY SEEKS TO HAVE, LOCATE, STAY OR EXPAND IN THE, IN OR NEAR THE TERRITORY OF THE GOVERNMENTAL BODY AND WITH WHICH THE GOVERNMENTAL BODY IS CONDUCTING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT NEGOTIATIONS. 
          OR NUMBER TWO, TO DELIBERATE THE OFFER OF FINANCIAL OR OTHER INCENTIVES TO A BUSINESS PROSPECT. 
          THIS IS IN REFERENCE TO PROJECT E DASH 80, PROJECT E DASH 83 AND PROJECT E DASH 84. 
          AND ALSO ON THE, UH, CLOSED SESSION IS ITEM NUMBER 18. 
          THE CITY COUNCIL WILL MEET IN CLOSED SESSION UNDER SECTION 5 5 1 0 7 4 OF THE TEXAS GOVERNMENTAL CODE PERSONAL MATTERS TO CONDUCT AN ANNUAL EVALUATION OF THE CITY SECRETARY, MS. SHEILA EDMONDSON. 
          THE TIME IS NOW 9 22. 
          WE WILL RECONVENE AFTER OUR DISCUSSION. 
          THE TIME IS 
          [ Reconvene into Regular Session]
NOW, UH, 9 47. 
          WE RECONVENE INTO A REGULAR SESSION AFTER OUR DISCUSSION AND DELIBERATION REGARDING OUR CLOSED SESSION. 
          ITEM NUMBER 19, REFERENCE ITEM NUMBER 17 EDC PROJECTS. 
          START TIME WAS 9 27 IN TIME WAS 9 41. 
          AND WE DO HAVE A RESOLUTION PRESENTED FOR COUNSEL. 
          RESOLUTION NUMBER 24 R 1 32. 
          A RESOLUTION BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF SHS, TEXAS AUTHORIZING THE EXPENDITURES AS REFLECTED IN THE AMENDMENT TO THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PERFORMANCE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF CHURCHS TEXAS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION AND 3 0 9 OH A C INVESTMENTS, LLC INSURED FRECKLES, LLC AND OTHER MATTERS IN CONNECTION THEREWITH. 
          COUNSEL, DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE? I'LL MAKE A MOTION. 
          SECOND. 
          MOTION MADE BY COUNCIL MEMBER BACK LUSO AND SECOND BY COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN. 
          ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? COUNCIL, IF YOU CAN PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE. 
          WE CAN PUBLISH THE VOTE PLEASE. 
          WE HAVE SIX AYES, NO OBJECTIONS. 
          MOTION PASSES. 
          ITEM NUMBER 20 ON THE CLOSE. 
          UH, SESSION REFERENCE ITEM NUMBER 18. 
          THE C CITY SECRETARY EVALUATION START TIME WAS 9 44. 
          END TIME WAS 9 46. 
          THE COUNCIL HAS, UH, PROVIDED THE MAYOR WITH SOME GUIDANCE REGARDING THE, THE SUBJECT MATTER. 
          THERE IS NO ACTION REQUIRED AT THIS TIME. 
          ITEM NUMBER 21, MONTHLY UPDATES, UH, MAJOR 
          [ Information available in City Council Packets - NO DISCUSSION TO OCCUR]
PROJECTS IN PROGRESS INFORMATION PACKETS WERE PROVIDED TO THE COUNCIL AND AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC VIEWING@OURWEBSITECHURCH.COM. 
          WE WILL MOVE ON 
          [ Requests and Announcements 	Requests by Mayor and Councilmembers for updates or information from Staff   	  	Requests by Mayor and Councilmembers that items or presentations be placed on a future City Council agenda 	  	City and Community Events attended and to be attended (Council)]
REQUESTING ANNOUNCEMENTS. 
          COUNSEL ANY, UH, ANY POSSIBLE UPDATES OR INFORMATION REQUESTED FROM STAFF? NONE. 
          COUNSEL, ANY POSSIBLE ITEMS YOU'D LIKE TO PLACE ON THE FUTURE? AGENDA? NONE. 
          ANNOUNCEMENTS BY COUNCIL MAYOR PRO TEM WESTBROOK? NONE. 
          OKAY. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER DAVIS. 
          UH, YES SIR. 
          I HAD THE PLEASURE OF ATTENDING NATIONAL NIGHT OUT WITH THE, UH, CITY STAFF AND THEN THE TML CONFERENCE IN HOUSTON. 
          THANK YOU. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER WATSON NATIONAL NIGHT OUT AND THEN TML AND THAT WAS ALL COUNCIL MEMBER MACALUSO GOOD. 
          DID THE NATIONAL NIGHT OUT, THE TML CONFERENCE AND ALSO, UH, PARTICIPATED WITH THE YMCA TRUNK OR TREAT, WHICH THEY SAID THEY HAD A RECORD NUMBER OF ATTENDEES THIS YEAR. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER HAYWARD? UH, YES, I ATTENDED NATIONAL NIGHT OUT AND I FORGOT TO BRING IT, BUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD RETA GAVE A, MADE A POSTER FOR CITY COUNCIL 
          [03:25:01]
AND THE FIRST RESPONDERS TO THANK US FOR COMING OUT FOR NATIONAL NIGHT OUT. 
          SO I'LL BRING IT TO THE NEXT COUNCIL MEETING SO EVERYBODY CAN SEE IT. 
          I ATTENDED THE, UH, ANIMAL ADVISORY, UH, COMMITTEE AND THEN, UH, THE TML ANNUAL CONFERENCE WHERE I BECAME A TML PRESIDENT, WHICH IS GONNA BE A DUTY ON TOP OF THE DUTY AS A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER. 
          SO I WILL PROBABLY BE BUSY, BUT I WILL BE REPRESENTING THE CITY OF SHIRTS VERY WELL AND THE STATE OF TEXAS. 
          AND THEN I DID THE JUDGE, THE FIRE PREVENTION POSTER CONTEST AND THE CHAMBER CIVIC CIVIC LEADERS LUNCHEON COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN. 
          I'M NOWHERE NEAR AS ENGAGED AS QUEEN ALLISON, BUT, UH,  NATIONAL NIGHT OUT. 
          THE UH, UH, CIVIC LEADERS LUNCHEON VOTED ON THE, UH, FIRE POSTERS TODAY. 
          ALRIGHT, THE TIME IS NOW, UH, NINE 50. 
          WE STAND, ADJOURN.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.