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WELL IT'S SIX O'CLOCK.[1. CALL TO ORDER]
GO AHEAD AND CALL, UH, THIS MEETING OF THE SHIRTS, PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION TO ORDER.I BELIEVE WE, NO, WE, WE HAVE COMMISSIONER GRADY JOINING US THIS EVENING AND, UM, SO GLAD YOU'RE HERE.
UH, MOVING ON TO THE HEARING OF RESIDENTS.
DO WE HAVE ANYBODY SIGNED UP TO SPEAK? NOPE.
[4. CONSENT AGENDA:]
CONSENT AGENDA, THE MINUTES FOR THE JUNE 3RD, 2026 MEETING.ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, MOTIONS? MS. CHAIRMAN, I MAKE A MOTION.
WE ACCEPT THE, UM, CONSENT AGENDA AS SUBMITTED.
THERE WAS A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA FROM COMMISSIONER OUTLAW, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HUGHES.
CAN WE PUBLISH THAT PLEASE? THAT MOTION CARRIES.
[A. PLVAR20260154 Sign Waiver - Consider and act upon a waiver request for a waiver in relation to a wall sign located on Lot 8 Block 12 of the Verde Enterprise Business Park Unit 10B, approximately 3.5 acres of land located at 17720 Verde Parkway, more specifically known as Guadalupe County Property Identification Number 199145, City of Schertz, Texas.]
MOVING ON.UH, P-O-V-A-R 2 0 2 6 0 1 5 4.
CONSIDER AN ACT UPON A REQUEST FOR A WAIVER IN RELATION TO A WALL SIGN LOCATED ON LOT EIGHT BLOCK 12 OF THE VERDE ENTERPRISE BUSINESS PARK.
UH, UNIT 10 B, APPROXIMATELY 3.5 ACRES OF LAND LOCATED AT 1 7 7 2 0 VERDE PARKWAY, MORE SPECIFICALLY KNOWN AS GUADALUPE COUNTY.
PROPERTY IDENTIFICATION NUMBER 1 9 9 1 4 5.
CITY SHIRTS, TEXAS A-P-L-V-A-R 2 26 0 1 54.
A SIGN WAIVER, UH, FOUR, A WALL SIGN IN THE VERDE ENTERPRISE BUSINESS PARK, PDD DC MARQUEZ SENIOR PLANNER.
SO GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.
UM, THIS PROPERTY IS LOCATED ALONG VERDE PARK PARKWAY WITH AN ADDRESS OF 1 7 7 2 0 VERDE PARKWAY.
IT IS AN APPROVED EXTRA SPACE STORAGE DEVELOPMENT.
AND IF YOU ARE UNFAMILIAR WITH OUR WONDERFUL VERDE ENTERPRISE BUSINESS PARK, PDD AREA, IT'S THIS LARGER AREA OUTLINED IN BLUE.
IT'S LOCATED ON THE NORTHERN SIDE OF I 35 AND KIND OF INTERSECTS THERE WITH OUR, UH, SHIRTS, PARKWAY DEVELOPMENT AND, UM, THAT LARGER BUILDING THERE IS THE AMAZON DEVELOPMENT, AND THEN BEHIND IT IS OUR ENTERPRISE INDUSTRIAL PARK.
KIND OF TO JUST SHOW YOU THE, THE SCOPE OF THIS.
SO WHY ARE WE HERE TODAY? IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE VERDE ENTERPRISE BUSINESS PARK, PDD, WHAT WE ALSO CALL THE VERDE PDD, IT WAS ADOPTED IN 2007 VIA ORDINANCE SEVEN S 14 A, AND THIS PDD SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT IF THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS ARE NOT LISTED IN THE PDD, THEN IT MUST FOLLOW THE 1996 UDC THAT WAS AT THAT TIME ADOPTED.
SO THE SITE DE DESIGN DESIGN CRITERIA ARE VERY DIS RESTRICTIVE AND THE SITE DESIGN CRITERIA AS WELL.
BUT NOW WITH THE AMENDMENTS DONE TO ARTICLE 11, WE HAVE THIS AVENUE TO REQUEST A SIGN WAIVER WITH THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION WHERE PRIOR, UM, TO HAVING THIS AVENUE, ALL OF THESE SIGN VARIANCES HAD TO BE REQUESTED TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.
AND KIND OF JUST SOME HISTORY, UM, DUE TO THE RESTRICTIVENESS OF THE VERDE PD, D-D-B-O-A ACTUALLY GRANTED VERDE PD DD SIGN WAIVERS IF THEY MET THE CURRENT ARTICLE 11 REQUIREMENTS.
AND KIND OF JUST TO SHOW YOU SOME OF THEM, UM, SINCE 2013, ESSENTIALLY, UM, IN BLUE YOU'LL SEE THE VERDE PDD AREA OUTLINED IN BLUE.
THIS IS ALL THE DEVELOPMENT WITHIN IT AND ALL THE STARS INDICATE A WALL SIGN OR A MULTI-TENANT SIGN VARIANCE THAT WAS GRANTED BY THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT BACK IN THE DAY, UM, BEFORE PNZ WAS ALLOWED TO ESSENTIALLY GRANT SIGN WAIVERS AND ALL OF THESE, UH, SIGN VARIANCES BACK IN THE DAY BECAUSE THEY WENT TO BOA ESSENTIALLY MET THE ARTICLE 11 CODE REQUIREMENTS THAT ANY OTHER PROPERTY WITHIN THE CITY OF SHIRTS THAT WASN'T IN A PDD HAD TO FOLLOW.
SO AGAIN, KIND OF JUST SHOWING THE RULES AND REGULATIONS BETWEEN THE TWO.
THE VERDE PD DD IN 1996 UDC WOULD ONLY ALLOW THE APPLICANT ONE WALL SIGN WITH THE MAXIMUM SIGN AREA, NO GREATER THAN 15% OF THE WALL SPACE OR 80 SQUARE FEET, WHICHEVER WAS LESS BETWEEN THE TWO.
BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE MAXIMUM LETTER AND LOGO HEIGHT WAS DEFINED BY THEIR DISTANCE FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY.
SO WE DON'T LOOK AT THIS NOW WHEN IT COMES TO OUR CURRENT ARTICLE 11, BUT BACK THEN, ESSENTIALLY, UM, THE APPLICANT WOULD BE RESTRICTED TO ONLY 12 INCHES IN HEIGHT IN ADDITION TO WORKING WITH WHATEVER WALL SIGN AREA THAT THEY HAD BASED ON THEIR ELEVATION.
CURRENTLY WITH ARTICLE 11, THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED THREE WALL SIGNS WITH THE MAXIMUM WALL SIGN AREA, DEPENDING ON THE ROADWAY CLASSIFICATION, WHICH WOULD HERE BE 100 SQUARE FEET, SO SIGNIFICANTLY MORE AND THEY WOULDN'T BE RESTRICTED IN HEIGHT.
SO AGAIN, JUST SHOWING YOU THE APPROVED DEVELOPMENT OF THE EXTRA SPACE STORAGE, UH, VERDE PARKWAYS UP HERE TO THE NORTH PLAN NORTH, AND AGAIN, JUST SHOWING YOU THE TOTAL PROPOSED SIGNAGE
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OF, UM, THIS EXTRA SPACE STORAGE.THE RED IS THE WALL SIGN WE'RE DISCUSSING TODAY THAT'S, UH, POINTED TOWARDS VERDE PARKWAY.
SO THIS IS THE ONLY WALL SIGN THEY'RE PROPOSING.
AND THEN IN ADDITION TO THAT, THEY HAVE A MONUMENT SIGN PLACED IN THIS AREA OR PROPOSING TO BE PLACED IN THIS AREA, UM, THAT'S ALREADY PERMITTED.
THERE'S, THEY SHOULD BE STARTING THE WORK MOMENTARILY, BUT ESSENTIALLY THESE ARE THE ONLY TWO SIGNS THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING IN TOTAL.
AND THIS IS A SIGN THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING, AGAIN, ONE WALL SIGN.
THIS IS THE ONE FACING VERDE, UH, PARKWAY 30 INCHES IN HEIGHT.
SO AGAIN, IT EXCEEDS AT 12 INCHES AND 83.3 SQUARE FEET IN AREA.
AGAIN, OUR CURRENT UDC WOULD ALLOW THEM A HUNDRED SQUARE FEET AND THREE WALL SIGNS, BUT THEY'RE ONLY PROPOSING ONE.
AND THEN LOOKING TO THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL FOR THESE SIGN WAIVERS, THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS WITHIN THE VERDE PDD.
IF THE VERDE PD DD DOESN'T LIST THOSE SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS, IT MUST FOLLOW THE 96 UDC, WHICH AGAIN, ARE VERY RESTRICTIVE ON THE NUMBER OF SIGNS, THE HEIGHT OF THE SIGNS BASED ON THE DISTANCE TO THE FRONTAGE, WHICH IS VERY ANTIQUATED BASED ON HOW WE LOOK AT SIGNS TODAY.
AGAIN, UM, THEY'RE LESS THAN A HUNDRED AND A HUNDRED FEET FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY.
SO THEY WOULD ONLY BE ALLOWED A SIGN 12 INCHES IN HEIGHT.
SO IF YOU THINK OF A RULER, THAT'S A VERY SMALL SIGN FOR EXTRA SPACE STORAGE.
UM, AND AGAIN, UM, WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TONIGHT IS ESSENTIALLY ALLOWED AND ACTUALLY UNDER WHAT OUR CURRENT SIGN CODE WOULD ALLOW.
UM, AND THEN WHEN IT COMES TO EXISTING LAND USES, THERE'S INDUSTRIAL AND COMMERCIAL ALONG THE AREA.
UM, PER THIS PDD AND AGAIN, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HAS GRANTS SIGN VARIANCES IN THE VERDE PITY IF THEY MEET THE CURRENT UDC SIGN REQUIREMENTS AT THE TIME OF APPLICATION, AGAIN, THE APPLICANT IS MEETING THE CURRENT SIGNED, UH, DESIGN REGULATIONS.
SO GRANT IN THIS WAIVER WOULD NOT BE DETRIMENTAL OR INJURES TO OTHER PROPERTIES IN VERDICT JUST BECAUSE HISTORICALLY BOA HAD GRANTED THESE SIGNED WAIVERS, IF THEY MEET THE CURRENT ARTICLE 11 REQUIREMENTS, AGAIN, WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING MEETS THE CURRENT ARTICLE 11 REQUIREMENTS.
AND THE APPLICANT IS NOT REQUESTING TO HAVE ANYTHING MORE IN ADDITION TO WHAT WOULD THEY EVEN BE ALLOWED, UM, CURRENTLY IN THE CITY OF SHE.
THEY'RE NOT ASKING TO BE TREATED SPECIAL BEYOND ANY, WHAT ANYONE IN THE CITY OF SHIRTS WOULD BE ALLOWED.
AND AGAIN, STRICT INTERPRETATION OF THE VERDE, PBDD AND 96 UDC WOULD ACTUALLY DENY THE APPLICANT OF THE RIGHTS COMMONLY ADJO BY OTHERS IN THE VERDE PDD THAT HAVE BEEN GRANTED THESE SIGN WAIVERS TO MEET THE CURRENT SIGN CODE.
AND THEN AGAIN, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THIS PROPOSED SIGN WAIVER BECAUSE THE APPLICANT IS ONLY PROPOSING ONE TOTAL WALL SIGN THAT EXCEEDS THE LETTER HEIGHT ALLOWED AND SIGNED AREA WITHIN THE VERDE PD DD AND 96 UDC REQUIREMENTS.
BUT IT MEETS ALL THE CURRENT ARTICLE 11 UDC REQUIREMENTS.
UH, THIS IS NOT AN ITEM FOUR, THERE'S NOT A PUBLIC HEARING, SO, UM, WE'LL OPEN IT UP TO COMMISSIONER.
QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, ANYBODY? MOTIONS? I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE VARIANCE FOR PL VR 2 0 2 6 0 1 54 SIGN WAIVER 4 17 7 2 VERDE PARKWAY.
SO THAT WAS A MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, POVR 2 0 2 6 0 1 54 BY COMMISSIONER HUGHES.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER LARE REYES.
IF THERE'S NO OTHER, UH, COMMENTS, PLEASE VOTE.
CAN WE PUBLISH THAT? THAT MOTION CARRIES.
[A. Conduct a Public Hearing, workshop, discussion, and possible action in relation to implementing a new land use category, definition, and Specific Use Permit process for Data Centers.]
ALRIGHT, MOVING ON.UH, ITEM SIX A, WE'RE GONNA CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING WORKSHOP DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION IN RELATION TO IMPLEMENTING NEW LAND USE CATEGORY DEFINITION AND SPECIFIC USE PERIMETER PROCESS FOR DATA CENTERS.
DAISY, GOOD EVENING, ONCE AGAIN, COMMISSIONERS A WORKSHOP ON DATA CENTERS.
DAISY MARQUEZ, SENIOR PLANNER.
SO PER THE MAY 6TH, 2026 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING, WE HAD A REQUEST TO ADD DATA CENTERS TO THE PERMITTED USE TABLE AND REQUIRE AN SUP.
SO WE THOUGHT WE'D JUST DO SOME RESEARCH AND HAVE A BIGGER DISCUSSION ON THIS AND PROVIDE THAT ESSENTIALLY AVENUE FOR Y'ALL TO DISCUSS.
UM, SO STAFF CONDUCTED SOME RESEARCH AND LOOKED AT ESSENTIALLY WHAT OUR DATA CENTERS, WHAT DO THEY LOOK LIKE, WHAT ARE OUR TARGET CITIES DOING? SO ESSENTIALLY THEY'RE DEFINED AS A PHYSICAL FACILITY THAT HOUSES AND RUNS THESE LARGER COMPUTER SYSTEMS, COMPUTER SERVERS, DATA STORAGE DEVICES, AND NETWORK EQUIPMENT FOR PROCESSING, STORING AND TRANSMITTING OF INFORMATION.
SO THINK OF ESSENTIALLY EVERYWHERE THAT HOSTS THE CLOUD.
APPLE DOESN'T JUST STORE IT IN THE AIR, BUT YOU'RE PAYING 99 CENTS FOR EXTRA STORAGE SO THAT OFFSITE, SOMEONE ELSE CAN PROCESS THAT INFORMATION
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AND STORE YOUR PICTURES FOR YOU.BUT ESSENTIALLY THESE TWO IMAGES, UM, THE ONE IN THE TOP IS THE INSIDE OF A GOOGLE DATA CENTER.
AND ESSENTIALLY ALL THOSE RACKS ARE RACKS AND RACKS AND RACKS AND RACKS OF SERVERS THAT ARE WITHIN A CONTROLLED AREA.
SO IT USES A LOT OF ELECTRICITY, A LOT OF AC AND THEN IN THE BOTTOM YOU'LL SEE THE OUTSIDE OF A MIDLOTHIAN DATA CENTER HERE IN TEXAS, KIND OF SEEING WHAT THEY ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE WHEN THEY'RE BUILT.
YOU CAN SEE, UM, THEY HAVE MORE OF AN INDUSTRIAL FEEL.
YOU CAN SEE ALL OF THE ACCESSORY EQUIPMENT THAT'S NECESSARY TO ACTUALLY RUN THESE TYPE OF THINGS.
UH, BACK IN THE DAY, THESE WERE GETTING REALLY POPULAR BECAUSE OF BITCOIN MINING, WHERE YOU FOUND THAT IMAGINARY MONEY ON THE INTERNET, BUT YOU NEEDED ESSENTIALLY COMPUTERS TO LOOK FOR THAT FOR YOU, UM, ON THE INTERNET.
NOW, THIS IS BECOMING A DISCUSSION.
IT'S BECOMING POPULAR AGAIN BECAUSE OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.
UM, IT REQUIRES A LOT OF PROCESSING AND MACHINE LEARNING.
SO THESE DATA CENTERS ARE BECOMING REALLY POPULAR, UM, SINCE THERE'S THIS AI BOOM.
CURRENTLY IN OUR UDC, THERE'S NO ARTICLE 16 DEFINITION FOR DATA CENTER.
UM, AND WE WOULD CURRENTLY CLASSIFY IT UNDER WAREHOUSE, UNDER THE WAREHOUSE DEFINITION, LAND USE.
WE ALSO DID SOME FURTHER, UM, INVESTIGATING ON WHAT THE AMERICAN PLANNING ASSOCIATION HAD ON DATA CENTERS ESSENTIALLY, AND WHAT ZONING PRACTICES THEY HAD OUT THERE.
SO ESSENTIALLY SOME OF THE BIGGEST CONCERNS OR, UM, THINGS THAT COULD BE REGULATED OR LOOKED AT WHEN IT COMES TO DATA CENTERS IS ELECTRICITY USE AND WATER USE.
THE COMPUTER SYSTEMS HAVE TO BE COOLED, SO YOU HAVE THAT HEAT WASTE, UH, FROM THE COMPUTERS CONSTANTLY RUNNING, BUT THEY ALSO USE WATER FOR COOLING.
WATER IS THE CHEAPEST WAY FOR THEM TO COOL THESE MACHINES.
THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES, BUT ESSENTIALLY HOW DO YOU ENFORCE THESE ALTERNATIVE METHODS IF WATER IS THE CHEAPEST? UM, ALSO NOISE PRODUCTION.
SO NOT NECESSARILY FOR WHAT'S INSIDE, BECAUSE INSIDE THEY DO HAVE A LOT OF INTERIOR NOISE REDUCTION MEASURES.
IT'S THAT EXTERIOR NOISE POLLUTION FROM THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
SO LIKE THE AC COMPRESSORS THAT CAN CROSS PROPERTY LINES DEPENDING ON WHAT IT'S ADJACENT TO.
UM, ALSO JUST ENHANCED SAFETY AND SECURITY NEEDS.
IT HOUSES VERY EXPENSIVE EQUIPMENT, TONS OF IT.
UM, BUT ALSO SOME CONCERNS ARE LOW EMPLOYMENT DESTINIES.
UM, FROM THIS ARTICLE, WE FOUND THAT IT SAYS THAT THERE'S FAR FEWER WORKERS PER SQUARE FOOT THAN PROFESSIONAL OFFICERS OR LIGHT INDUSTRIAL USES IN DATA CENTERS.
SO THEY MIGHT SAY WE HAVE 60 JOBS, BUT IN REALITY THERE'S TWO GUYS THAT COME IN AND MAKE SURE NOTHING'S BLOWING UP DURING THE DAY.
UM, AND ESSENTIALLY, UM, THIS ONLY REALLY PROVIDED GUIDANCE ON WHAT'S MINIMIZING OR MITIGATING POTENTIAL ADVERSE IMPACTS AND WHAT THOSE CONCERNS CAN BE.
AND AGAIN, WE ALWAYS LOOK AT OUR TARGET CITIES.
WE WANTED TO SEE HOW THEY DEFINE THEM, IF THEY EVEN DEFINE THEM.
SO TEMPLE DOES ALLOW DATA CENTERS IN LIGHT AND HEAVY INDUSTRIAL ZONING IN SOME COMMERCIAL, UH, BASED ON THEIR SQUARE FOOTAGE.
SO THEY HAVE LESS THAN 10,000 SQUARE FEET AND GREATER THAN 10,000 SQUARE FEET.
SO ESSENTIALLY THINK IN, UM, M1, M TWO, THEY WOULD BE PERMITTED BY RIGHT, BUT THEN YOU START THINKING, OKAY, IS THIS PERMITTED BY RIGHT IN GB TWO? ARE WE GONNA PERMIT THIS BY RIGHT IN GB? THOSE ARE, YOU KNOW, JUST SOME THINGS TO CONSIDER.
THE CITY OF MCKINNEY, UH, DEFINES IT AS A LAND USE AND THEIR, UM, DEFINITIONS.
IT DOES REQUIRE SPECIFIC USE PERMIT IN THEIR REGIONAL COMMERCIAL, BUT IT IS PERMITTED BY WRIGHT IN THEIR OFFICE.
REGIONAL OFFICE, LIGHT, INDUSTRIAL HEAVY INDUSTRIAL AND GOVERNMENT COMPLEX.
BUT THERE'S NO SPECIFIC SITE DESIGN REGULATIONS WHEN IT COMES TO THAT.
THE CITY OF FRISCO JUST DEFINES IT AS A NON RESIDENTIAL USE AND IT'S PERMITTED BY WRIGHT INDUSTRIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, BUT IT DOES REQUIRE AN SEP AND COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICTS.
AND THEN THE CITY OF SEIN, UM, WE HAD SOME OF OUR PLANNERS REACH OUT TO THEM AND THEY JUST SAID THAT UDC AMENDMENTS TO REQUIRE AN SEP AND INDUSTRIAL DISTRICTS IS BEING WORKED ON.
SO NOTHING'S IMPLEMENTED YET, BUT THEY'RE WORKING ON THEIR OWN UDC AMENDMENTS.
AND THEN JUST LOOKING AT DEFINITIONS, DEPENDING ON WHAT CITY YOU GO TO AND, UM, WHAT UDC YOU'RE LOOKING AT, IT REALLY DEPENDS ON HOW BROAD OR HOW DEFINED THEIR DEFINITION IS.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE CITY OF MCKINNEY, THEY REALLY ENCOMPASS EVERYTHING THAT CAN REALLY HAPPEN WITHIN THERE, BECAUSE AGAIN, THESE DATA CENTERS CAN BE, FOR EXAMPLE, ONLY ONE COMPANY OR THEY CAN BE SHARED BETWEEN COMPANIES.
SO IT CAN BE A THING WHERE ESSENTIALLY THERE'S MULTI-TENANTS WITHIN THIS DATA CENTER THAT SHARE THE SERVERS, THEY'RE SHARING THE FACILITIES, BUT ESSENTIALLY ONE LARGER ONE IS, UM, AT LEAST SITTING IT OUT TO THEM.
SO THINK OF, OKAY, AMAZON IS, UH, BUILDING THIS GIANT FACILITY, THEY'RE PUTTING THE MONEY IN IT, BUT MICROSOFT IS GONNA USE SOME OF THAT CAPACITY FOR THEMSELF AND GAMING INSTITUTIONS ARE GONNA USE THAT CAPACITY FOR THEMSELVES.
AND THEN WHEREAS FRISCO JUST SAYS IT'S A BUILDING OR GROUP OF BUILDINGS USED FOR HOUSING COM, UH, COMPUTERS, RELATED EQUIPMENT, ET
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CETERA, WHEREAS TEMPLE BREAKS IT DOWN BY SQUARE FOOTAGE AND ESSENTIALLY, UM, WHAT EMPLOYEES ARE ACTUALLY THERE OR NOT.SO SOME THINGS, UM, THAT CAN BE DONE OR ESSENTIALLY SOME AMENDMENTS OR POTENTIAL AVENUES FOR AMENDMENTS.
AS LOOKING AT ARTICLE FIVE, OUR PERMITTED USE TABLE IS ESSENTIALLY ADDING A DEFINITION TO DATA CENTER.
EITHER IN, UH, IN ARTICLE 16 DEFINITIONS, WE CAN EXPAND TO OFFICE WAREHOUSE.
IF YOU'D LIKE, YOU CAN ADD A NEW DEFINITION OF DATA CENTER.
WE WOULD JUST REQUEST ESSENTIALLY GUIDANCE ON WHATEVER DIRECT DIRECTION YOU WOULD LIKE TO GO.
BUT ESSENTIALLY, UM, IF YOU WANNA ADD IT TO THE PERMITTED USE TABLE, WE WOULD WANT TO KNOW ESSENTIALLY WHAT ZONING DISTRICTS YOU WOULD WANT IN IT IF YOU WANT IT TO BE, UH, PERMITTED BY, RIGHT.
IF AN SEP WOULD BE REQUIRED AND ESSENTIALLY JUSTIFICATION SO THAT, UM, AN AMENDMENT COMES THROUGH, THEN WE CAN TAKE IT TO CITY COUNCIL AND PROVIDE EXPLANATION.
ANOTHER OPTION IS THAT WE HAVE THIS, UM, ARTICLE EIGHT, WHICH IS SPECIAL USES IN GENERAL REGULATIONS.
UM, USUALLY WE DON'T SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN THERE, BUT AN EXAMPLE IS SECTION 2186 FOR A TELECOMMUNICATIONS ANTENNAS.
UM, IT HAS ITS OWN PERMITTED USE TABLE, ESSENTIALLY, WHERE IT SAYS IF IT'S THIS SO MANY FEET WITHIN RESIDENTIAL, IF IT'S A RESIDENTIAL USE, IF IT'S AN INDUSTRIAL USE, UM, AND SE P'S REQUIRED OR IT'S PERMITTED BY RIDE, DEPENDING ON HEIGHT AS WELL.
BUT ESSENTIALLY, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO COME IN WITH A TELECOMMUNICATION ANTENNA AND IT REQUIRES AN SUP, THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE SITE PLANS THAT MEET ALL OUR CURRENT UDC REQUIREMENTS.
IT'S EXPLICITLY WRITTEN IN THE CODE.
THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE ELEVATIONS, THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE STUDIES THAT THEY, UM, THIS TELECOMMUNICATION ANTENNA IS REQUIRED IN THIS AREA BECAUSE NO OTHER TELECOMMUNICATION ANTENNA CAN PROVIDE A SERVICE THAT YOU KNOW THEY NEED.
THEY HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THERE'S SO MANY FEET FROM THIS OTHER ANTENNA OR CO-LOCATION SITE.
AND THERE'S A VALID JUSTIFICATION AND VALID STUDIES THAT ARE PREPARED BY, UM, ENGINEERS THAT DEMONSTRATE THAT IT CAN'T BE DONE OR THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.
UM, BUT IT'S MORE THAN JUST MEETS AND BOUNDS LETTER OF INTENT, A TIA SUMMARY LIKE WE WOULD USUALLY SEE.
SO ESSENTIALLY THOSE ARE THE TWO DIRECTIONS.
AGAIN, THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING AND DISCUSSIONS, SO IT NEEDS TO BE OPENED UP FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
BUT FOR THE DISCUSSION IT'S MORE OF WHAT DIRECTION WOULD P AND Z LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD IN? AND PLEASE PROVIDE US AS MUCH GUIDANCE AS POSSIBLE WHEN IT COMES TO THE DISCUSSION.
UH, WELL, LIKE SHE SAID, IT IS A PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYBODY NOW BEFORE YOU HERE FOR A SPECIFIC ITEM? NO, JUST HANGING OUT.
WELL, IT'S, UM, IT'S STILL SIX 18.
WE'LL GO AHEAD AND CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
SO IF, IF I COULD START THE BAR ROLAND DAISY, UM, WHEN Y'ALL WERE DOING THE PROCESS, I KNOW WHEN, WHEN I FIRST STARTED TALKING ABOUT THIS, IT WAS PROBABLY APRIL.
UM, AND SO THIS WAS PRE THE SAN MARCUS BAN.
UM, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT Y'ALL CONSIDERED AT ALL IN THIS, UM, CHAIRMAN WALLACE? I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD BAN USE WITHOUT GETTING SUED, TO BE QUITE HONEST.
AND THAT WAS GONNA BE MY, 'CAUSE I, I THINK I HAD THE SAME THOUGHT IN TERMS OF WHAT, WHEN THEY DID IT.
UM, I HAVEN'T, I DIDN'T GET SPECIFICALLY INTO THEIR, LIKE HOW THEY ACTUALLY WENT ABOUT DOING IT.
UM, BUT THAT THOUGHT WAS, IS THAT SOMETHING WE CAN DO OR IS THAT MORE A, UM, I WOULD TREAT IT THE SAME AS IS A, IS IT SOMETHING THAT'S KIND OF PENDING? I KNOW.
SO I WOULD SAY THAT WE HAVE NOT CONSULTED OUR LEGAL TEAM ON HOW FAR WE COULD TAKE THIS.
WE WANTED TO COME TONIGHT, CORRECT, DEPENDING ITS ZONING COMMISSION DIRECTION WAS, AND THEN GO BACK AND TALK TO LEGAL ON WHAT MECHANISM WE HAVE.
SO WE HAVE NOT CONSULTED LEGAL ON IF WE COULD JUST OUTRIGHT BAN.
UM, SO WITH THAT IN MIND, I THINK IN MY ORIGINAL, UM, THOUGHT PROCESS WAS TO PUT THIS AS A SPECIFIC USE IN OUR MOST INTENSE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT.
UM, SO IN TWO, UH, WITH, AND THEN I, I DO LIKE, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE ANTENNA SLIDE? I DO LIKE THAT THOUGHT PROCESS OF, IN ADDITION TO THAT SUP, YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE ALL THIS ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTATION AND WE CAN, I KNOW THERE'S A COUPLE HILL COUNTRY COUNTIES WHO HAVE STARTED TO DO THIS IN TERMS OF YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE WATER STUDIES, ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES, IMPACT TO, UM, YOU KNOW, YOUR ACTUAL COMMUNITY.
BECAUSE FRANKLY, JUST, JUST BEING OPINIONATED FOR A SECOND, I DON'T THINK THESE HAVE A PLACE IN OUR COMMUNITY, PERIOD.
UM, I THINK LOOKING AT THE EXISTING CONDITIONS WITH A LOT OF THESE
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FACILITIES, UM, AND THE WAY THEY'RE BUILT, IF YOU GO, THERE'S, THERE'S ACTUALLY A REALLY GREAT EXAMPLE OF ONE BEING BUILT ON THE KIND OF SOUTHWEST SIDE OF SAN ANTONIO, UM, WHERE IT HAS, I BELIEVE THEY HAVE 14 TO 16 LARGE, UM, NATURAL GAS GENERATORS, BACKUP GENERATORS BUILT ACROSS THE STREET FROM A RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY.SO THERE REALLY ISN'T A, IN TERMS OF LAND USE, UM, OPPORTUNITIES.
BUT THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THE REALITY IN A LOT OF CITIES WHERE YOU HAVE THESE LARGE, UM, HIGH CONSUMPTION USES THAT YOU THEN HAVE TO, IF YOU'RE ALLOWING IT, YOU THEN HAVE TO ALLOW THE CORRESPONDING INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH IN RECENT, I MEAN UNLESS THINGS ARE GOING TO CHANGE, HAS BEEN DIESEL OR NATURAL GAS GENERATORS, UM, AND THE NOISE AND THE POLLUTION AND JUST ALL THE NEGATIVES THERE.
I, I DON'T, I I HAVE NOT SEEN A SINGLE POSITIVE ASSOCIATED WITH THESE USES.
SO MY GOAL IN THIS, FRANKLY, IS TO MAKE IT AS DIFFICULT AS POSSIBLE, DIFFICULT AS LEGALLY POSSIBLE TO PUT THESE FACILITIES IN CHURCH TEXAS.
UM, I'M SURE THE STATE LEGISLATURE WOULD LIKE IT AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
I, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THEIR OPINION, BUT I'M SURE IT WOULD BE, OH, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T OUTRIGHT BAN IT, BUT IF PUTTING AN SUP AND M TWO WITH A ADDITIONAL, UM, SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS REQUIRED THAT WOULD MAKE IT, WOULD MAKE THE DEVELOPMENT HARDER TO OCCUR HERE THAN OTHER PLACES, I THINK WOULD BE THE, THE DIRECTION TO TAKE.
UM, SO I'LL, I'LL GO AHEAD AND OPEN IT UP TO OTHERS.
I KNOW, UH, COMMISSIONER HUGHES, YOU WANTED TO YES.
SOME OTHER THINGS TO CONSIDER DAISY, UM, EACH ONE OF THESE FACILITIES NOW REQUIRES A SUBSTATION.
SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO PUT A POWER SUBSTATION RIGHT BESIDE THAT.
AGAIN, THAT'S GONNA GENERATE MORE PROBLEMS, MORE POLLUTION.
SO IT NEEDS TO BE VERY SPECIFIC BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT'S A FEDERAL REQUIREMENT AS THEY REQUIRE, AS THEY HAVE TO HAVE A SUBSTATION ATTACHED TO IT.
SO NOW WE DEAL WITH MORE, MORE ISSUES WITH THE SUBSTATION BEING BUILT, COORDINATING THAT WITH THE, WHETHER IT'S CPS OR GVEC.
SECONDLY, IT'S THE LIGHT POLLUTION TOO.
THOSE THINGS ARE BRIGHT LIGHT ALL THE TIME FOR SECURITY REASONS.
SO NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE THE NOISE, BUT YOU ALSO HAVE THE LIGHT EFFECT AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
SO CONSIDERING RANDOLPH, WE NEED TO BE REAL CONCERNED OF, WE DON'T WANT THEM TO BE PUT ANY PLACE WHERE IT CAN MESS UP RANDOLPH'S LANDING ZONE AND LAND AT RANDOLPH'S PATHWAY.
UM, THERE'S A LOT OF WATER USAGE, A TON OF IT.
UM, IF THEY GO OFF OF, IF THEY GO IN OUR WATER, HOW MUCH IS THAT GOING TO IMPACT THE CITIZENS? UM, THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO LOOK AT.
AS FAR AS OUR CONCERNED, I DON'T THINK THEY BELONG HERE.
WE HAVE ENOUGH WAREHOUSE AND ENOUGH LIGHT INDUSTRIAL THAT I THINK SUPPORT AND WITH THE NEW DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE SHOWING IN COMMER IN COMMERCIAL, THAT'S GOING TO IMPACT THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR THE CITIZENS.
BUT I WOULD LOOK, I WOULD LOOK INTO THE SUBSTATIONS REQUIREMENT FOR ELECTRICAL AND SEE IF THEY REQUIRE A SUBSTATION, BECAUSE THAT'S GONNA PUT INTO HEAVY INDUSTRIAL AT THAT POINT.
AND THAT MAY BE A CONSIDERATION WHERE IT'S NOT ONLY THIS ANTENNA, BUT ALSO EVEN GREATER BECAUSE OF THAT USAGE.
AND THEN YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE WATER.
HOW ARE THEY GONNA CONTAIN IT? UM, EVEN THOUGH WHEN THEY FIRST PUT THAT WATER IN TO COOL THE SYSTEMS, IS THERE POTENTIALITY OF THAT LEAKING? AND HOW DOES THAT AFFECT GROUNDWATER? AND HOW DOES THE GROUND AFFECT GROUND SURFACES? AND IS THERE CONTAMINANT LEVELS? SO I THINK A HEAVY INDUSTRIAL SHOULD BE MORE OF OUR PLOY.
I DON'T THINK THEY FIT WITH US.
I MEAN, SLOWLY BUT SURELY WE'RE GROWING OUT.
UM, ONE DAY WE WON'T HAVE ANY MORE GREEN SPACE EXCEPT FOR A FEW PARKS, BUT THAT'S GONNA BE YEARS DOWN THE ROAD.
BUT IN THE TIME BEING HAVING A DATA CENTER, I MEAN, IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE SOLAR WAS BIG FOR A WHILE, WIND WAS BIG FOR A WHILE, AND DATA CENTERS ARE BIG FOR A WHILE.
IF DATA CENTERS GO OUT FOR WHATEVER REASON, ARE THEY CHANGED TO A DIFFERENT PLATFORM? AND WE HAVE THIS MONOLITHIC BUILDING WITH ALL THIS MATERIAL, AND WHAT DO WE DO WITH IT? SAY IF IT'S A GOOGLE, MICROSOFT, AMAZON, THEY SIT THERE AND GO, OH, WE CANNOT DO IT SMALLER AND WE DON'T NEED THIS MASSIVE BUILDING ANYMORE.
SO NOW WE HAVE AN A BUILDING THAT WE CAN'T GET RID OF.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF CONSIDERATIONS, BUT I WOULD DEFINITELY LOOK AT THE HEAVY INDUSTRIAL AND LOOK AT THE REQUIREMENTS ON THE SUBSTATIONS.
'CAUSE IF THEY'RE REQUIRING A SUBSTATION THAT MAY TAKE IT FROM A LIGHT INDUSTRIAL TO A HEAVY INDUSTRIAL IMPACT COMMISSIONER, ALLAH.
WELL, I, I, I THINK THE DIRECTION, MY PERSONAL OPINION THAT WE SHOULD TAKE IS, UM, UM, M TWO IS OUR HEAVY.
THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY THE BIGGEST INDUSTRIAL WE'VE GOT, RIGHT? M TWO
[00:25:01]
WITH AN SUP NOW STARTING THERE, NUMBER ONE AS A, UM, AS A TEXAS RESIDENT, I AM, I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW DISAPPOINTED I AM IN AN ERCOT THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE ALL REMEMBER IT WAS, WHAT, FOUR YEARS AGO WHEN, WHEN WE HAD THE, THE ROLLING BLACKOUTS AND THEY TURNED MY POWER OFF, AND WHEN THEY WENT TO TURN IT BACK ON, IT DIDN'T COME BACK ON.AND I WENT WITHOUT ELECTRICITY FOR 11 HOURS.
UM, AND YET ERCOT AND OUR FRIENDS IN AUSTIN SIT THERE AND SAY, OH, NO, WE DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS. WHEN IN FACT, FROM WHAT I SEE, THEY CAN'T EVEN PROVIDE ENOUGH ELECTRICITY FOR CURRENT USERS, LET ALONE THESE BIG DATA CENTERS.
SO I'M, I'M REALLY DISAPPOINTED.
AND IF, IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBT AS TO HOW IT'S GONNA GO IN AUSTIN, I DON'T.
UM, AND I'M, AND I THINK IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING NOW THAT AFTER THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION, WE WON'T BE ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING.
UM, I DID WANT TO COMMENT THAT, UM, COMMISSIONER HUGHES, YOU, YOU MENTIONED AMAZON, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BIG ONE UP OFF OF A-W-S-A-W-S IS, IS THEIR DATA CENTER PORTS.
SO IT'S NOT THE SAME THING, BECAUSE I WAS JUST GONNA TELL YOU, THEIR BIG DISTRIBUTION CENTER, THE ORIGINAL PLANS HAD THAT THAT BUILDING IS, IS DESIGNED SO THAT THE DAY AMAZON LEAVES, THEY, UH, THEY CAN SUBDIVIDE IT.
I MEAN, IF THE BUILDING IS DESIGNED TO BE A MULTI-TENANT, BUT YEAH, THAT'S A MULTI-TENANT.
BUT FOR THIS SPECIFIC, FOR AWS YEAH, IT'S DATA CENTER BUILT, SO IT LOOKS LIKE A SMALL BARN YEAH.
BUT I DID WANT TO COMMENT THAT.
UM, YOU KNOW, IF, IF, IF WE TRY TO, UM, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF WE MAKE THIS AN SUP, IF SOMEBODY WERE TO COME AND JUMP THROUGH ALL THE HOOPS AND MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS, WE CAN'T JUST SAY NO.
I MEAN, THAT'LL, THAT'LL LAND THE CITY IN COURT FASTER THAN, YOU KNOW, ICE WILL MELT IN MID-AUGUST.
UM, BUT I DID WANT TO ASK ABOUT, SEE, THINGS HAVE CHANGED A LOT.
UM, AND, AND I'M AFRAID BECAUSE WE USED TO HAVE, AND I, YOU KNOW, HAVING, HAVING BEEN OUT OF THE BUSINESS FOR A WHILE NOW, DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE STILL THERE, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE VERIZON, THEIR SWITCH STATION IS STILL THERE.
SPRINT ACROSS THE STREET, I THINK IS STILL THERE.
UM, AND THEN WE HAD AT LEAST ONE, IF NOT TWO DATA CENTERS BUILT.
AND, UM, THEY WERE BUILDINGS THAT WERE, UH, THEIR WHOLE PURPOSE WAS TO HOUSE COMPUTER EQUIPMENT AND THEY WOULD DO OFFSITE PROCESSING FOR OTHER CUSTOMERS, BANKS AND PEOPLE LIKE THAT.
AND THEN YOU CAN THINK ABOUT, UM, RACK SPACE IN THAT USED TO BE IN WINDCREST THERE IN THE OLD, UM, UM, WINDSOR PARK MALL, WINDSOR PARK, WINDCREST, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT IT'S CALLED, WINDOR PARK.
THEY, THEY WERE A, THEY WERE A DATA HOSTING, AND YET IT LOOKED LIKE JUST ANY OTHER BUILDING.
AND, UM, SO MY CONCERN IS THAT IF WE CAST TOO BROAD A NET, PARDON ME.
I MEAN, THE ONES WE'RE SEEING THAT ARE MAKING THE NEWS ARE THE BIG ONES WITH THE, THE NOISY COOLING STATIONS AND THE GENERATORS AND THE, THE HIGH WATER USE AND THE HIGH ELECTRICAL USE.
AND YET, UM, RIGHT HERE IN THE CITY, UH, I'M GOING, I'M GOING TO ASSUME THEY'RE STILL THERE.
WE, WE ALREADY HAVE MAYBE FOUR OF WHAT I CALL DATA CENTERS.
AND, UM, I'M AFRAID IF WE CAST TOO BROAD A NET, BECAUSE THE ONES YOU, YOU, YOU REALLY, WE REALLY WANNA WATCH OUT FOR ARE THESE BITCOIN MINING AND THE AI PLACES, BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE BIG, THOSE ARE THE ONES YOU SEE IN THE PICTURES WITH, WITH ALL THE ELECTRICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE COOLING SYSTEMS AND, AND THAT KIND OF STUFF THAT I, I, IF WE, IF WE MAKE THIS TOO BROAD A DEFINITION, THEN WE'RE GONNA CATCH THINGS LIKE VERIZON AND SPRINT.
[00:30:01]
I WISH I COULD REMEMBER WHAT THESE OTHER TWO DATA CENTERS WERE CALLED.UM, AND ONE OF MY WIFE, UH, RIGHT AFTER WE MOVED HERE A COUPLE YEARS, UH, SO IT WAS PROBABLY 90 91, MY WIFE WENT TO WORK FOR CITY CORPS AND THEY WERE BUILDING A BIG DATA CENTER OVER ON RESEARCH ON THE FAR WEST SIDE OF, UM, SAN ANTONIO BEAR COUNTY.
AND AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT THAT, THAT PLACE WAS A DATA CENTER.
BUT MY RE MY RECOLLECTION OF, OF THERE, THEY HAD A COUPLE OF BIG BACKUP DIESEL GENERATORS THAT, THAT SAT IN A SEPARATE LITTLE HOUSE.
UH, I DON'T REMEMBER HOW THEY COOLED IT, BUT IN MY MIND, I I, I SEE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A RACKSPACE AND A BITCOIN MINER OKAY.
AND, UM, SO AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW IF THOSE TWO COMPUTER PLACES ARE STILL THERE.
UH, I KNOW VERIZON AND SPRINT ARE, UH, SO WOULD WE BE CON WOULD WE THEN, IF WE DO THIS, WOULD WE BE CREATING, UH, NON-CONFORMING USE CONDITIONS? SAY, UM, SO I, I GUESS WHAT I WANT TO, TO TRY AND AVOID, I THINK WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING.
BUT I THINK THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE US BE A LITTLE MORE SURGICAL AS TO, UM, WHAT WE SCOOP UP IN THIS, UM, DATA CENTER.
AND I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE WE CAN DO THAT WITH SQUARE FOOTAGE OR, UM, WATER USE OR, YOU KNOW, FIND SOME WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT OH, I'M SORRY, I, I THINK YOU UNDERSTAND, YOU, YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS.
SO THAT WOULD BE ON MY ONLY CONCERN.
I, I DO AGREE THAT I, I THINK WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING, BUT I JUST THINK WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT HOW WE GO ABOUT IT.
WE COULD ALWAYS LOOK AT IT WITH, UM, WITH THE ADDITION OF THE SUBSTATION, IF THEY ARE REQUIRING A SUBSTATION WHICH IS REQUIRED FOR THESE LAW WITH THESE LARGE DATA CENTERS.
NOW THAT'S ACTUALLY A FEDERAL POLICY IS IF THEY REQUIRE THAT SUBSTATION THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO PLANT, THEN THAT COULD BE ONE OF THE TIP OFF POINTS OF THIS IS WHAT WE DON'T WANT.
BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE SECONDARY SUBSTATION IN THERE NOW WHERE WE'VE DRAWN A LOT OF POWER, UM, WHETHER IT'S ON CPS OR GVEC SIDE, AND ERCOT SHUT DOWN THAT AMARILLO COAL MINE YEARS COAL PLANT YEARS AGO, THAT CAUSED HALF THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE.
SO LOOKING AT IT FROM JUST THE POWERPOINT OF VIEW, IF THEY POP A A SUBSTATION, WE KNOW IT'S GONNA BE MASSIVE.
WE KNOW THERE'S GONNA BE A DRAW.
THEY'RE REQUIRED TO PUT THAT IN NOW.
AND SO YOU'LL SEE THEM ALL HAVE A SUBSTATION NEXT TO IT.
AND AT THAT POINT IN TIME, THAT COULD BE SOMETHING, A SPECIAL CONSIDERATION OF THAT.
YOU HAVE A SMALL VERIZON THAT BASICALLY RUNS OFF NORMAL POWER AND A SMALL, A HUNDRED GALLON GENERATOR INSTEAD OF A SUBSTATION AND A 5,000 GALLONS WORTH OF DIESEL THAT ARE GONNA BE, THAT ARE GONNA BE GOING OFF EVERY SINGLE DAY.
SO THAT COULD BE ONE, ONE WAY WE UTILIZE IT.
AND WE COULD ALSO CAP THE WATER USAGE IF WE NEED TO LOOK AT HOW MUCH IS VERIZON USING FOR WATER USAGE.
AND THEN WE COULD CAP THAT WATER USAGE, LIKE ANYTHING ABOVE X AMOUNT REQUIRES SPECIAL CONSIDERATION.
AND MAYBE WE COULD, UM, MAYBE WE COULD LOOK FOR SOME KIND OF, UM, CATEGORY, YOU KNOW, OF HAVE A ONE, TWO OR THREE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.
I, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T WANNA MAKE THINGS TOO COMPLICATED.
UH, BUT THAT YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S THE KIND OF THING, DAVID, THAT, UM, WE MIGHT LOOK AT WHEN WE'RE, BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE DOING NOW IS THEY'RE, THEY'VE BUILT IN SAN ANTONIO IN SEVERAL LOCATIONS.
UM, SEVERAL HOMEOWNERS ARE EXTREMELY UNHAPPY.
I'M PRETTY SURE THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO JUST DOESN'T EVEN ANSWER THE CALLS ANYMORE.
SO THEY'RE GOING OUT AREAS WHERE THERE'S EVEN ONE PROPOSED SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THE BRAUNFELS AND SAN MARCO AND KIND OF A NO MAN'S LAND AREA, RIGHT.
TO AVOID THE REGULATION ONE, THE FINANCIAL COSTS FROM THE HOMEOWNERS.
UM, MICROSOFT IS PAYING, I THINK, ONE HOMEOWNER BECAUSE OF A LACK OF ENJOYMENT OF THEIR POOL.
THEY'RE STILL PAYING THEM, I THINK 10 YEARS LATER, $2,000 A MONTH BECAUSE THEY CAN'T SWIM WHEN THEY WANT TO BECAUSE OF THE NOISE FROM THE DATA CENTER.
AND THEY'RE, AND THEY'RE PAYING THAT CHECK, WHICH IS GREAT.
I MEAN, $2,000 A MONTH, HEY, PAY A MORTGAGE, AWESOME, THANK YOU.
BUT I STILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS SCREAMING LIGHTS.
IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS, WE NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL HOW WE'RE DOING THIS.
AND THAT'S WHY YOU SEE A LOT OF DATA CENTERS THAT ARE MOVING FURTHER AND FURTHER OUT WHERE THERE'S LESS RESTRICTION.
SO YOU'RE SEEING A LOT OF INCORPORATED AREAS AND, AND SHIRTS, UH, YOU KNOW, WHEN VERIZON AND, AND SPRINT AND THOSE OTHER TWO THAT I, THAT I, THAT I TALK ABOUT,
[00:35:01]
UM, I BELIEVE THERE'S A, A HUGE FIBER OPTIC BACKBONE THAT RIDES RIGHT UP 35 AND IT MADE SHIRTS A GOOD LOCATION.I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY, ANY 35 FRONTAGE THAT WOULD BE USE STILL BE USEFUL TO THESE PEOPLE.
BUT, UM, UM, AND WE ALSO NEED TO KEEP IN MIND TOO, THE AIR FORCE BASE, IF WE CAN'T PUT ANYTHING ON SHIRT SOUTH FOR A DATA CENTER, THOSE LIGHTS ARE GOING OFF SO BAD THAT IT'S, IT'S, THEY'RE BEACONS.
IF YOU'VE SEEN ONE AT NIGHT WHEN THEY'RE FULLY OPERATIONAL, UM, YOU CAN SPOT THEM FOR MILES, YOU CAN SPOT THEM IN FOG.
UM, THEY DO THAT FOR SECURITY REASONS, AND THAT'S WELL WITHIN THEIR RIGHTS TO SECURE THE BUILDING WITH HAVING AS MUCH LIGHT ON THERE AS POSSIBLE.
BUT WITH THE FLIGHT PASS FROM RANDOLPH AND THE RESTRICTIONS FOR THAT, WE HAD TO BE CAREFUL ON BUILDING HOMES.
SO WE DEFINITELY NEED TO BE CAREFUL ON BUILDING A DATA CENTER.
SO REAL, REAL QUICK TO REIGN IT IN, UM, I, I KNOW COMMISSIONER OUTLAW HAS LISTED FOUR CENTERS ARE, HE SAID FOR SURE TWO ARE STILL FUNCTIONING.
DO WE KNOW ABOUT THOSE AND WOULD WE CLASSIFY IT AS A DATA CENTER OR IS THIS MORE OF LIKE A SWITCHING STATION, LIKE WHAT HE'S SAYING? SO THE ONLY, THE ONLY ONE THAT I HAVE DIRECTLY BEEN INVOLVED WITH IS THE VERIZON ON TRI-COUNTY.
UM, THEY DID AN EXPANSION, A SMALL EXPANSION, UM, TWO, THREE YEARS AGO FROM THE OUTSIDE.
YOU WOULD THINK IT'S JUST ANY OTHER OFFICE WAREHOUSE ON TRI-COUNTY PARKWAY.
UM, IN THE CURRENT CODE, THEY'RE CLASSIFIED AS OFFICE WAREHOUSE.
THAT IS WHAT THEY WOULD BE CLASSIFIED.
WE DON'T HAVE A SET DEFINITION.
SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE CAN, WE CAN GO WITH THIS, WITH WHETHER IT'S THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OR, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE, THE POINTS THAT COMMISSIONER HUGHES, UM, MENTIONED.
WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AND MAYBE CREATE TWO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.
AND IF SO, LET'S SAY WE DIDN'T DO THAT AND WE JUST HAD ONE, THEY WOULD, I MEAN, THEY'D BE CONTINUED TO, ALLOWED TO OPERATE UNTIL THEY WANTED TO MAKE CHANGES BEFORE THEY WOULD NEED TO COME BACK AND GET AN SUP.
THEY WOULD BE CONSIDERED NON-CONFORMING SUBJECT TO ARTICLE SEVEN.
IT'S JUST IF THEY WANTED TO EXPAND, THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME AND TRY TO GET AN SUP.
AND SO, NOT, NOT TO SAY I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE BEST ROUTE, BUT VERSUS GETTING INTO THE NITTY GRITTY OF SIZE REQUIREMENTS AND WELL, IF YOU NEED A SUBSTATION, IF YOU NEED THIS, I, I WOULD LOOK AT IT IN THE LENS OF, LET'S SAY WE HAVE FOUR, I WOULD BE OPEN TO THE FOUR COMING BACK AND SAYING, HEY, WE'VE BEEN HERE A WHILE.
WE'D LIKE TO CONTINUE OPERATING AND WE CONSIDER THOSE SUVS.
SO THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY IS I BELIEVE ALL OF THE PROPERTIES THAT COMMISSIONER OUTLAW IS MENTIONING ARE ALL ZONED M1.
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WOULD NECESSARILY SUPPORT A REZONE TO M TWO JUST SO THEY COULD GET THE SUP.
I, SO YEAH, I GUESS HAVING A DEFINITION PHRASE, SMALLER CENTER THAT COULD FOCUS MORE.
AND I KNOW, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE DEFINITIONS FROM A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT CITIES? I KNOW MCKINNEY'S IS A BIG WORD VOMIT, BUT MAYBE GETTING INTO SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY GET INTO THE, THAT'S MAYBE SOMETHING MORE SPECIFICALLY TARGETED TO WHAT THEY'RE DOING SPECIFICALLY.
I THINK I COULD ARGUE THAT A TELECOM CENTER IS DIFFERENT THAN A DATA STORAGE FACILITY.
AND YOU COULD MAYBE WE COULD BASE IT ON THAT, BUT I THINK THE ISSUE WITH GETTING INTO SIZE IS THEN THEY'RE LOCKED INTO A SIZE.
WE'RE GOING BASED OFF THE SIZE.
I MEAN, HOW BIG ARE THESE FACILITIES? JUST KIND OF LIKE A, DO WE KNOW OFF THE TOP HEAD I HAVET IDEA.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T INHERENTLY WANNA LOCK 'EM INTO A SIZE TYPE OF THING, BUT I THINK AS IF YOU'RE STARTING TO GET BIGGER AND BIGGER AND BIGGER, YOU'RE POTENTIALLY STARTING TO PUSH INTO THESE OTHER ISSUES.
LIKE, IF WE'RE BRINGING UP THE FACT THAT ALL THESE THINGS HAVE GENERATORS, WELL, IF THE, YOU KNOW, IF THE VERIZON CENTER NOW NEEDS THREE GENERATORS TO KEEP THEIR FACILITY RUNNING, THEN IT'S DEFEATING THE PURPOSE OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO.
YOU KNOW, UM, I I, IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE SHOULD CONSIDER WITH THE FOUR THAT ARE EXISTING, THE, LIKE, THE HYPOTHETICAL FOUR THAT ARE EXISTING.
BUT MY WAY TO, MY PREFERRED WAY OF SAYING IT WOULD BE TO HAVE A NON-CONFORMING USE OR HAVING A SITUATION WHERE WE CAN WORK WITH THOSE SPECIFICALLY VERSUS CREATE MULTIPLE DIFFERENT LAYERS TO THE ONION OF, I I CAN SEE WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.
I, I, I DO THINK THE STRUGGLE IS, UM, AND WE CAN, I CAN MAYBE PULL UP THE VERIZON.
[00:40:01]
THE CONVERSATION.I THINK, YOU KNOW, UNLESS YOU'RE WILLING TO OPEN UP THE SUP AND M1, WHICH I'M NOT SURE NO, THAT THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO DO.
I, I TRULY DON'T THINK THAT THE PROPERTY THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WOULD BE SUPPORTED AS AN M TWO.
SO THEY'D NEVER BE ABLE TO EVEN COME IN AND REQUEST THAT SUP THIS ONE? YEAH.
LET ME, UH, THE ADDITIONAL PARKING THAT THEY DID.
THERE YOU SEE THE SHADOW OF THE, THE TOWER.
SO WOULD, I MEAN, WOULD IT, WOULD IT BE MORE BENEFICIAL TO CREATE A DEFINITION FOR LIKE A TELECOM FACILITY AND MAYBE PUT THAT IN? I MEAN, WHILE WE'RE DOING THIS, I, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK OF WHAT, WHAT IS A WAY THAT, UM, 'CAUSE I AGREE.
I DON'T THINK M TWO WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.
I DON'T NECESSARILY WANNA BREAK EVERYTHING DOWN BY SIZE.
'CAUSE THEN YOU'RE EITHER LOCKING THEM INTO A SIZE REQUIREMENT OR YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, UM, OR CREATING A, A CONDITION WHERE WE JUST HAVE ALL THESE LITTLE MICRO CENTERS THAT MEET THE, OH, WE'RE A SMALL DATA CENTER.
UM, BUT I THINK IF THE CONCERN IS THE EXTRA POWER AND THE EXTRA WATER RIGHT.
THAT A SMALL CENTER LIKE THIS IS PROBABLY NEVER GONNA BE ABLE TO, UM, WARRANT HAVING THAT EXTRA SUBSTATION.
AND I THINK YOU CAN, YOU CAN SEE ON THE SITE HERE, WHEN THEY CAME IN AND DID THE EXPANSION AND THE ADDITIONAL PARKING, THEY'RE, THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH CAPPED.
THEY'RE, THERE'S REALLY NO MORE ROOM FOR THEM TO EXPAND.
UM, ANYBODY ELSE? WELL, I, I, I DON'T NECESSARILY DISAGREE WITH YOU, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE KEEP TRYING THESE ONE SIZE FITS ALL THINGS AND THEY DON'T WORK.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SEE FROM THIS EXAMPLE, TH TH TH THIS ONE FITS RIGHT IN WITH, WITH EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S UP THERE.
UM, SO, AND I, I WISH I COULD REMEMBER WHERE THE, THE, THE OTHER ONES ARE SOMEWHERE UP THERE.
UM, AND, AND HONESTLY, I, I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE THEY ARE.
UH, I REMEMBER BEING, UM, SCARED TO DEATH OF THEIR FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEMS. AND SO WHEN IT CAME TIME TO TEST THEM AND CERTIFY 'EM, WE JUST STOOD BACK AND LET A CONTRACTOR DO IT.
BUT, UM, UM, I, I DID WANNA SAY THE OTHER THING WE'VE GOT GOING ON RIGHT NOW IS YOU SEE THESE FACILITIES ARE IN INDUSTRIAL PARKS TO WHERE THE ONLY, THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT MAY BE DISTURBING ARE THEIR INDUSTRIAL PARK NEIGHBORS.
THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT KEEPING, UH, RESIDENTS AWAKE AND, AND, AND BOTHERING PEOPLE IN THEIR, IN, IN THE COMMUNITY POOL.
UM, BUT A, A AGAIN, I THINK WE, YOU KNOW, I'VE GIVEN YOU SOME IDEAS AND CHAIRMAN WALLACE HAS GIVEN YOU SOME IDEAS AND COMMISSIONER HUGHES HAS GIVEN YOU SOME IDEAS.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING FROM LEFT FIELD OVER HERE, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS CAN JUST SLAP ME IF I TALK TO MUCH.
UM, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS TAKE THIS BACK AND MULL IT OVER WITH YOURSELVES.
TALK TO ED, TALK TO, UM, UH, BRIAN, UM, AND, AND GET SOME INPUT.
UM, MAYBE TALK TO THE, I DON'T KNOW IF THE CHAMBER WOULD REALLY BE INTERESTED IN, IN BEING HAVING ANY INPUT OR NOT, BUT, UM, COMMISSIONER HECTOR.
SO, UH, HAS THERE, UH, BEEN ANY DATA THAT YOU ALL HAVE OR LOOKED INTO
[00:45:01]
REGARDING THE IMPACT TO THE RESIDENTS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY? LIKE UTILITY COSTS GOING UP? SO TYPICALLY WHEN IT COMES TO UTILITIES DURING THE SITE PLAN PROCESS, THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE US ESSENTIALLY, UM, CONFIRMATION THAT THE UTILITIES CAN SERVICE THEM.SO IF THEY RUN INTO ANY ISSUES WITH GETTING UTILITY SERVICE FROM UTILITY PROVIDERS, IT WOULD BE DURING THE SITE PLAN PROCESS.
SO THAT DISCUSSION HAPPENS WITH THE UTILITY PROVIDERS, BUT US CONDUCTING OUR OWN RESEARCH AND LOOKING AT THAT, NO, SIR.
SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING ELSE TO CONSIDER.
YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GONNA BE THE NET NEGATIVE TO THE RESIDENTS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY? YEAH.
IT'S A VERY HOT TOPIC RIGHT NOW.
THERE ISN'T MUCH OF ESSENTIALLY DATA FOR THESE DATA CENTERS.
ALL WE COULD REALLY FIND WAS THE A PA, UM, ZONING DISCUSSION PAPER THAT WE FOUND WHEN IT COMES TO PLANNING RELATED, LIKE ZONING DISCUSSIONS, REVOLVING DATA CENTERS.
SO, UH, LOUDOUN COUNTY, VIRGINIA, UH, RIGHT OUTSIDE OF DULLES AIRPORT, UH, ONE OF THE MOST AFFLUENT COUNTIES IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA, UH, IT'S BECOME A, A MAJOR ISSUE THERE AMONGST THEIR RESIDENTS FOR THINGS LIKE UTILITY COSTS, UH, OTHER, UH, ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS TO THE COMMUNITY THAT'S IMPACTED THE, THE RESIDENTS AND THE QUALITY OF LIFE OF THAT COMMUNITY.
SO, UH, I, I BEAR TO SAY THAT THERE ARE PROBABLY, UH, SOME THINGS OUT THERE.
UH, I JUST KNOW THAT ONE, UH, FROM SPENDING A LOT OF TIME IN THAT AREA AND IT WAS, IT WAS A HUGE DEAL.
IT WAS A LOT OF LAND OUT THERE AND I THINK THE, UH, DEVELOPERS GOT IN FIRST BUILT A LOT OF HOUSES AND UH, AND THEN THE DATA CENTERS CAME.
SO, I MEAN, YOU HAD PEOPLE BUILDING, YOU KNOW, HAD JUST BUILT MILLION DOLLAR HOMES THAT WERE LOOKING TO GET OUT OF THEM AND COULDN'T MOVE 'EM BECAUSE OF THAT.
SO I JUST THINK THAT THERE'S SOME IMPACTS TO THE, THE COMMUNITY AND THAT WOULD BE MY CONCERN.
YOU KNOW, I AM, YOU KNOW, I KNOW WE LIVE IN A CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY, A FREE ENTERPRISE SOCIETY AND, UH, YEAH.
AND, AND THEY NEED THOSE THINGS IN ORDER TO SUPPORT THEIR BUSINESS.
BUT, UH, JUST SOME VERY LEERY AT THAT COMING AT THE COST OF THE RESIDENTS OF THIS COMMUNITY.
UH, COMMISSIONER LARE RES, ARE THERE ANY CURRENT APPLICATIONS OR DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WANTING ANY AREAS TURNED INTO DATA CENTERS CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW? NO MA'AM.
WOULD WE KNOW, I MEAN, LIKE DISCUSSIONS OF IT? PROBABLY NOT, OR, UM, PROBABLY NOT MA'AM.
IF THEY COME IN FOR A PRE-DEVELOPMENT MEETING, IT WOULD BE MORE BASED ON SITE DESIGN REQUIREMENTS.
THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, UTILITIES.
AND THAT'S WHERE WE CAN BE LIKE, YOU NEED TO REACH OUT TO THE UTILITY PROVIDERS TO SEE IF THERE'S UTILITIES AVAILABLE TO YOU, IF YOU KNOW THEY CAN PROVIDE THAT LEVEL OF SERVICE THAT YOU NEED.
AND SO THEY COULDN'T JUST REQUEST OR, YOU KNOW, SAY THEY'RE GONNA DO A WAREHOUSE, WE WOULD HAVE TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE PUTTING INSIDE THE WAREHOUSE CURRENTLY.
UM, WE WOULDN'T KNOW UNTIL THE BUILDING PERMITTING PHASE.
'CAUSE THAT'S WHEN THEY START SHOWING THE LAYOUT OF THE INTERIOR OF THE BUILDING.
SO ESSENTIALLY IF THEY'RE PROPOSING A USE THAT'S ALLOWED WITHIN THE ZONING DISTRICT MM-HMM
SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE SAYING NOW, IF RIGHT NOW WE CONSIDER IT OFFICE WAREHOUSE, RIGHT.
IF UTILITIES ARE AVAILABLE TO THEM AND THEY'RE ABLE TO MEET ALL OF THEIR REQUIREMENTS, THEN THEY CAN OPERATE WITHIN THAT ZONING DISTRICT, WITHIN THOSE PARAMETERS.
WOULD, WOULD IT BE EASIER JUST TO PIGGYBACK OFF THAT, TO ADD, UM, LIKE THE VERIZON USES TO THE DEFINITION OF OFFICE WAREHOUSE? OR WOULD YOU, WOULD YOU? YOU KNOW WHAT, I'LL PUT THAT IN THE THING.
WELL, LIKE COMMISSIONER OUTLAW SAID, WE CAN LOOK BACK AT THE ONES THAT ARE EXISTING THAT HE REFERENCED, DO SOME MORE RESEARCH ON THAT.
UM, LOOK FURTHER INTO WHAT COMMISSIONER HECTOR WAS SAYING IN VIRGINIA AND COME BACK AND PROVIDE Y'ALL WITH THAT INFORMATION.
SO DO YOU AT A LATER DATE? YEAH.
DO YOU NEED ALL THAT AS A MOTION? NO.
UM, SO JUST FOR MY, I, THE, THE THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WITH IT, UM, CREATING THAT DEFINITION FOR A
[00:50:01]
SMALL CENTER OR UPDATING OUR OFFICE WAREHOUSE DEFINITION AND THEN A DEFINITION FOR LARGE CENTER, SIMILAR TO, I THINK IT WAS TEMPLE THAT HAD, UM, SO BASED ON THE SIZE A SUBSTATION REQUIREMENTS, EMPLOYEES ENERGY CONSUMPTION, ADDING THE LARGE CENTER USE TO M TWO AS AN SUP.AND IF WE MOVE FORWARD WITH SMALL CENTER, ADD THAT TO, UH, M1 AS AN SUP AND THEN LOOK AT ADDING REQUIREMENTS TO ARTICLE EIGHT.
SO WITH THIS HAVING TIED TO AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STUDY, A WATER QUALITY OR CONSUMPTION STUDY, A-J-B-S-A SLASH LIGHTING STUDY, UM, AND THEN POTENTIAL BUFFERS RELATED TO, UH, ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT TIED TO THE IMPROVEMENT OR THE APPROVAL OF THE SVP.
ANYBODY ELSE? COMMISSIONER HUGHES ALSO JUST KINDA LOOK UP AND SEE, I THINK THEY'RE RESTRICTED FROM THE RECHARGE ZONE JUST BECAUSE OF THE WATER.
IF YOU WANNA VERIFY IF THEY ARE JUST BECAUSE OF, BECAUSE THEY ARE, BECAUSE THE EDWARDS IS SO SENSITIVE THAT THEY MAY BE OUTLAWED FROM THERE.
AND IF WE LOOK AT THAT, THAT MAY, HOW IS THAT GONNA DISTURB US? ONE THING TO CONSIDER FOR THAT ALSO, BUT WHAT I WAS THINKING IS THAT IF SOMEONE'S PUTTING IN, AND WE MAY NOT KNOW ABOUT IT, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE IT'S GONNA GIVE US A BIG TIP OFF IF THEY, IF THEY ALSO COME IN AND SAY, OH, WE WANT AN ELECTRICAL SUBSTATION, BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA TELL YOU WHAT'S IN OUR BUILDING.
IT KIND OF LIKE, OH, YOU PUT AN ELECTRICAL SUBSTATION UP.
WE KIND OF KNOW WHERE YOU GUYS ARE GOING WITH THIS.
SO IT MAY, IT MAY BE HELPFUL FOR US 'CAUSE THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE TO DRAW THAT PLAN FOR THE SUBSTATION ALSO 'CAUSE IT'S A PRIVATE BILL SUBSTATION.
WELL, REALLY QUICKLY, I, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, UM, THAT UM, WHEN, WHEN YOU GO BACK AND YOU START BRAINSTORMING THIS THING THAT, THAT YOU CONSIDER ALL OF THE COMMENTS YOU HEARD TONIGHT AND UM, SEE HOW YOU CAN SMOOSH THOSE TOGETHER AND COME UP WITH SOMETHING.
WELL, IF THERE'S NO OTHER ACTION, WE
[B. Conduct a Public Hearing, workshop, discussion, and possible action in relation to Article 11 Signs and Advertising Devices. ]
WILL UH, MOVE ON TO OUR SIGN WORKSHOP, CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING WORKSHOP DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION IN RELATION TO ARTICLE 11 SIGNS AND ADVERTISING DEVICES.SO EXCITED TO TALK ABOUT SIGNS WITH Y'ALL.
SO THIS IS THE WORKSHOP ABOUT SIGNS ARTICLE 11, EMILY DELGADO, PLANNING MANAGER.
SO SOME BACKGROUND ORDINANCE 25 S 0 24 WAS PROOF APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL ON JUNE 17TH, 2025.
AND THAT WAS THAT FULL REWRITE OF ARTICLE 11, WHICH IS SIGNS AND ADVERTISING DEVICES.
AND THEN IN MAY, COMMISSIONER OUTLAW REQUESTED A WORKSHOP ON SIGNS TAKING US A LITTLE BIT TO GET HERE.
AND THEN AT THE LAST MEETING IN JUNE, UM, COMMISSIONER OUTLAW KIND OF GAVE TWO POINTS THAT HE SPECIFICALLY WANTED TO TALK ABOUT.
SO I WANNA MAKE SURE WE HIT THOSE TONIGHT AND TALK ABOUT THE REST OF ARTICLE 11 AS WELL.
SO THAT ONE WAS UNIQUE CONSIDERATIONS FOR LARGER SCALE DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS WITH TENANTS THAT ARE INTERIOR TO THE DEVELOPMENT.
AND THEN THE SECOND ONE WAS DISCUSSION ON HOW THE SIGN AREA IS CALCULATED.
SO IF YOU'LL BEAR WITH ME, I'M GONNA GIVE KIND OF A, A SPIEL.
I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT WHAT OUR CODE CURRENTLY HAS AND THEN I HAVE SOME TARGET CITY RESEARCH THAT I DID TO SHOW YOU HOW THEY'RE LOOKING AT THESE SIGNS.
AND THEN WE CAN DO THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN WE'LL DO DISCUSSION.
SO STARTING OFF WITH WALL SIGNS.
AS YOU REMEMBER BACK WHEN WE DID THE ARTICLE 11 REWRITE, THE KIND OF MAIN PURPOSE OF THAT REWRITE WAS ONE, TO MAKE THE CODE MORE CLEAR BECAUSE OUR SIGN SECTION WAS CONFUSING FOR APPLICANTS, PROPERTY OWNERS, FOR STAFF INTERPRETING IT, MAKE IT MORE CLEAR, MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBLE FOR PROPERTY OWNERS AND TO INCREASE SIGNAGE KIND OF ACROSS THE BOARD.
SO WITH THAT, WALL SIGNS ARE NOW, UM, CLASSIFIED BASED OFF OF THE ROADWAY CLASSIFICATION.
THAT IS ACTUALLY HOW THE OLD CODE WAS.
BUT THE OLD CODE HAD IT AS, UM, LIMITED ACCESS, UNLIMITED ACCESS.
AND EVEN BEING A STAFF MEMBER, EVERY TIME I REVIEWED A SIGN, I HAD TO GO LOOK AT THE DEFINITIONS TO FIGURE OUT AND REMEMBER WHICH ONE WAS LIMITED, WHICH ONE WAS UNLIMITED.
SO IMAGINE BEING THE PROPERTY OWNER TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT.
NOW IT'S INTERSTATES AND FARM TO MARKET ROADS AND THEN ALL OTHER, YOU BASICALLY KNOW IF YOU'RE ON AN FM ROADWAY OR THE INTERSTATE, A LITTLE EASIER FOR YOU TO FIGURE OUT WHICH, UH, SIGN REQUIREMENTS APPLY TO YOU.
SO IF YOU'RE ON 10 OR 35 OR ON ONE OF THE FM ROADS, YOU HAVE A MAX AREA PER FACADE OF 250 SQUARE FEET.
IF YOU'RE ON ANY OTHER ROAD, IT'S A HUNDRED SQUARE FEET.
AND THEN THE MAX NUMBER OF FACADES, IT'S THE SAME FOR THREE PER BUILDING OR TENANT.
AND THEN WE HAVE SOME CAVEATS THAT IF YOUR BUILDING IS OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, YOU GET AN ADDITIONAL 100 SQUARE FEET.
SO IF IT'S A REALLY BIG BUILDING, YOU GET A LITTLE MORE SIGNAGE.
[00:55:02]
AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE SOME REQUIREMENTS THAT, OR SOME ADDITIONAL ITEMS THAT IF YOU'RE ON MAIN STREET WITH A FACADE FACING THE RAILROAD, YOU'RE ALLOWED AN ADDITIONAL 250 SQUARE FEET OF SIGNAGE FACING FM 78 FOR FREESTANDING GROUND SIGNS.SO THE PREVIOUS ARTICLE 11 DIDN'T HAVE JUST ONE CATEGORY OF FREESTANDING.
THERE WAS FREESTANDING GROUND SIGNS, WHICH PEOPLE TYPICALLY THINK OF LIKE A POLE SIGN.
YOU GOT THE POLE ON THE GROUND AND THE SIGN UP TOP.
AND THEN WE ALSO HAD DIFFERENT, UM, REQUIREMENTS FOR MONUMENT SIGNS THAT HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE MORE ROCK BASE THINGS LIKE THAT.
THAT WAS REALLY CONFUSING FOR FOLKS AS WELL.
SO IN THE REWRITE WE COMBINED THEM ALL AND SAID EVERYTHING IS A FREE STANDING SIGN.
IF YOU'RE NOT A WALL SIGN, YOU'RE A FREE STANDING GROUND SIGN OR A FREE STANDING SIGN, WHICH IS WHAT YOU SEE HERE.
WE DID BREAK IT DOWN A LITTLE FURTHER.
SO THERE'S INTERSTATES, FARM TO MARKET ROADS AND THEN ALL OTHER.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE, KIND OF AS THE ROADWAY CLASSIFICATION GETS A LITTLE MORE INTENSE, THE SIGN GETS A LITTLE TALLER.
UM, SO INTERSTATES 250 SQUARE FEET AN AREA 50 FEET IN HEIGHT AND YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE PER LOT FRONTAGE FARM TO MARKET 250 AGAIN, BUT SHORTER, 35 FEET AND AGAIN, ONLY THE ONE.
AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S 150 AND 20.
AND THEN WE HAVE TEMPORARY SIGNS, WHICH WAS REALLY THE HOT BUTTON BACK THEN.
I KNOW Y'ALL REALLY ENJOYED ALL OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS.
HAVEN'T REALLY GOTTEN A WHOLE LOT OF, UM, YOU KNOW, QUESTIONS ABOUT THE NEW TEMPORARY SIGNS.
BUT I WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT THAT THIS IS REALLY THE OTHER BIG CATEGORY OF SIGNAGE THAT WE HAVE IN ARTICLE 11 NOW.
AND THEN THE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENED WITH, UM, ARTICLE 11, THE REWRITE WAS 21 11 15 WAIVERS, WHICH Y'ALL ARE VERY INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH NOW, WAIVERS.
UM, IF ANYBODY PREVIOUSLY TO ARTICLE 11, THE REWRITE WANTED TO DEVIATE FROM THE SIGN CODE, THEY WENT TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND WERE HEARD AS VARIANCES, WHICH HAD THE LEGAL HARDSHIP REQUIREMENT, MEANING THAT IT WAS MUCH HARDER TO GET, UM, MEET THOSE LEGAL HARDSHIP REQUIREMENTS PER STATE LAW AND GET THAT VARIANCE APPROVED.
SO WE, WE SAW THE NEED THAT THERE ARE TIMES THAT THERE'S UNIQUE SITUATIONS, THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME ABILITY TO DEVIATE FROM THE CODE.
AND THAT'S WHERE KIND OF THE WAIVER SECTION WAS BORN.
AND THAT DOES GO TO PLANNING AND ZONING.
AND THEN IF SOMEBODY DOES APPEAL A WAIVER DECISION BY PLANNING AND ZONING, IT DOES GO TO CITY COUNCIL FOR FINAL ACTION.
AND THAT WAS THE OTHER THING WITH VARIANCES WITH BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.
IF SOMEBODY, UM, WANTED TO APPEAL THAT VARIANCE DECISION, IT ACTUALLY GOES TO DISTRICT COURT.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, COMMISSIONER OUTLAW SPECIFICALLY WANTED TO TALK ABOUT WAS HOW WE CALCULATE AREA.
SO THIS IS THE DEFINITIONS AND THEN I HAVE SOME EXAMPLES ON THE NEXT SLIDE THAT WE'LL GO THROUGH.
BUT THE HIDE OF SIGN, THAT ONE'S PRETTY EASY.
EVERYBODY SEEMS TO UNDERSTAND IT'S FROM THE GROUND TO THE TOP OF THE SIGN, RIGHT? THAT'S THE HEIGHT.
IT'S THE AREA THAT, UM, SOMETIMES WE GET THOSE QUESTIONS ON.
THERE'S ONE IN 11 AND ONE IN 16.
SO THE ONE IN 11 SAYS THE MAXIMUM EFFECTIVE SIGN AREA SHALL BE THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE OF A SINGLE FACE SPECIFIED FOR EACH TYPE OF SIGN WITHIN THIS ARTICLE.
THEN THE ONE IN 16 SAYS, THE AREA OF ANY SIGN SHALL BE THE SUM OF THE AREA ENCLOSED BY THE MINIMUM IMAGINARY RECTANGLES, TRIANGLES, OR CIRCLES, WHICH FULLY CONTAIN ALL EXTREMITIES OF THE SIGN, INCLUDING THE FRAME, ALL WORDS, NUMBERS, FIGURES, DEVICES, DESIGNS, OR TRADEMARKS BY WHICH ANYTHING IS MADE KNOWN.
BUT EXCLUDING ANY SUPPORTS TO COMPUTE THE ALLOWABLE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE SIGN, ONLY ONE SIDE OF A DOUBLE FACE SIGN SHALL BE CONSIDERED.
OKAY? SO HOW THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS IN PRACTICE WHEN WE'RE REVIEWING SIGN PERMITS.
SO I WILL SAY WE CURRENTLY UTILIZE, UM, A SOFTWARE THAT WE CAN, UM, WE DON'T HAVE TO RELY JUST ON THE MEASUREMENTS THAT THEY GIVE US.
WE CAN CALCULATE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE.
WE UTILIZE BLUEBEAM TO GET DOWN TO THE, YOU KNOW, MINUTE, SQUARE, SQUARE FOOTAGE OF AREA.
SO WHEN YOU SEE THIS SIGN HERE, HOPEFULLY YOU CAN SEE THE GREEN LINE.
THAT IS HOW WE CALCULATE THE AREA OF THE SIGN.
SO WE'RE NOT JUST DRAWING A BIG RECTANGLE FROM TOP TO THE BOTTOM.
WE'RE NOT GONNA, UM, COUNT ANY OF THE DEAD SPACE AGAINST THE APPLICANT.
WE'RE GONNA DRAW EXACTLY AROUND WHERE THE SIGN IS.
SO THIS SIGN WAS, UM, PROPOSED AND WAS PERMITTED ON AN ALL OTHER ROADWAY CLASSIFICATION.
SO THAT'S A MAX HEIGHT OF 20 WITH A MAX AREA OF 150, WHICH IS WHAT YOU CAN SEE HERE.
THEY CAPPED OUT, IT'S A 20 FOOT SIGN, 150 SQUARE FEET AN AREA.
THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE I THINK IS THE EXACT WHAT YOU PICTURE IN YOUR MIND.
OKAY? THAT IS ON A FARM TO MARKET ROAD, SPECIFICALLY FM THREE TO BELOW NINE, WHICH HAS A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF 35
[01:00:01]
FEET AND A MAX AREA OF 250 SQUARE FEET.NOW THIS ONE, WE DO NOT COUNT THE POLE AS THAT IS THE SUPPORT STRUCTURE.
WE WOULD ONLY COUNT THE SIGN PIECE UP HERE.
SO NOW YOU'RE PROBABLY WONDERING WHY WE COUNTED THIS ON A SIGN LIKE THIS.
I GOT SOME EDUCATION FROM OUR BUILDING INSPECTIONS.
WHAT YOU'RE SEEING HERE IS VENEER.
THAT VENEER IS NOT ACTUALLY SUPPORTING ANY PIECE OF THAT SIGN.
IT IS THERE FOR DECORATION, IT'S THERE TO MAKE THE SIGN LOOK PRETTY.
AND THERE'S ACTUALLY POLES INSIDE OF THAT VENEER CASE THAT ARE THE ACTUAL SUPPORT STRUCTURE.
SO WE WOULD CLASSIFY THAT AS PART OF THE SIGN AND WOULD COUNT AS PART OF THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE.
THIS WAS A SIGN ON 35 MAX HEIGHT OF 50, UM, AND A MAX AREA OF 250 SQUARE FEET, YOU'LL SEE THAT THE SIGN THAT WAS PERMITTED, IT'S ONLY 25 FEET TALL.
UM, SO THEY OPTED FOR A SHORTER SIGN SO THEY COULD GET A LITTLE WIDER SIGN.
UM, BECAUSE IF YOU GO THE FULL 50 FEET ON THIS TYPE OF SIGN, IT GETS REALLY NARROW TRYING TO STAY UNDER THAT 250.
AND AGAIN, THIS IS THE SAME WAY THESE DOWN HERE, VENEER.
IT'S NOT ACTUALLY SUPPORTING THE STRUCTURE, IT'S NOT SUPPORTING THE SIGN.
SO THEN GOING INTO TARGET CITY RESEARCH, I LOOKED AT GEORGETOWN, CILO MCKINNEY AND NEW BRAUNFELS.
JUST KIND OF PICKED A COUPLE, SO WE HAD SOME POINT OF REFERENCE.
SO THE FIRST ONE, GEORGETOWN, THE FIRST, UM, PIECE THAT I WANTED TO INCLUDE WAS THIS MASTER SIGN PLAN CONCEPT THAT GEORGETOWN HAS.
I THINK THAT GOES KIND OF TOWARDS THE CONVERSATION ABOUT A LARGER DEVELOPMENT.
WE WANNA ADVERTISE THE INTERIOR TENANT.
SO, UM, GEORGETOWN HAS A MASTER SIGN PLAN THAT'S REQUIRED FOR ALL MULTI-TENANT BUILDINGS AND PUDS AND ALL OTHER MULTI-BUILDING, MULTI OCU COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS.
AND IN LOOKING AT THEIR CODE, THAT MASTER SIGN PLAN IS ESTABLISHED AT THE BEGINNING OF THAT PROJECT.
SO RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING, SAY DURING, YOU KNOW, THE PUD PROCESS THERE, OR LIKE THE PDD PROCESS HERE, IF WE IMPLEMENTED SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WE WOULD KNOW FROM THE BEGINNING WHERE THOSE SIGNS WOULD BE, HOW LARGE THEY WOULD BE, ALL OF THAT VARIANCES.
UM, FOR SIGNS IN GEORGETOWN, UM, THEY ARE HEARD BY THEIR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.
THEY'RE CONSIDERED SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS.
AND THEN THE SIGN DIMENSIONAL STANDARDS.
SO THEY HAVE A FULL TABLE THAT OUTLINES THE SIGN AREA AND HEIGHT MAXIMUM, ALONG WITH SETBACKS.
UM, THEY DON'T JUST BASE IT ON ROADWAY CLASSIFICATION, THEY BASE IT ON ROADWAY CLASSIFICATION AND ZONING.
SO IT DOES GET A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED.
YOU GOTTA FIGURE OUT, OKAY, I'M THIS ZONING, BUT I'M ALSO ON THIS ROADWAY, SO THAT MEANS I'M, THIS, IT'S A LITTLE MORE, I'M A LITTLE MORE CHALLENGING.
UM, SO POINT OF REFERENCE, ALL PROPERTIES ALONG IH 35 IN GEORGETOWN, THEY CAN HAVE A POLE SIGN, MAXIMUM AREA OF 225 AND A MAX HEIGHT OF 28 FEET.
MONUMENT SIGNS ARE THE SAME, 225 SQUARE FEET, 28 FEET IN HEIGHT.
SO YOU'LL SEE SHIRTS, WE DON'T DO THAT BREAKDOWN, RIGHT? THEY'RE ALL THE SAME, BUT WE WOULD ALLOW 250 SQUARE FEET, SO JUST A LITTLE LARGER.
BUT WE WOULD ALLOW A 50 FOOT TALL SIGN WHERE THEY WOULD ONLY ALLOW A 28.
AND LOOKING AT HOW THEY COME, UM, COMPUTE AND CALCULATE THEIR AREA.
THEY ALSO, UM, AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, SAY, SHALL BE INCLUSIVE OF THE SIGN BASE AND SIGN CABINET.
SO THEY ALSO INCLUDE THAT IN THEIR AREA CALCULATION LIKE WE DO.
AND THEN HEIGHT, SAME THING FROM THE BASE, UH, FROM THE GROUND TO THE TOP OF THE SIGN.
AND THEN LOOKING AT S BELOW IN TERMS OF AREA, THEY HAVE A, UM, THEIR SIGN CODE IS FAIRLY EXTENSIVE, FAIRLY COMPLICATED IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH YOU HAVE TO READ TO TRY TO FIND THE SUBSTANCE TO IT.
SO YOU'LL SEE AREA THE ENTIRE SIGN SURFACE WITHIN A SINGLE CONTIGUOUS PERIMETER EXCLUDING SUPPORT STRUCTURE.
SO THEY DO DO IT A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN US IN TERMS OF, UM, IT'S NOT AS CLEAR ON IF IT'S LIKE THAT VENEER LIKE I SHOWED YOU, IF THAT WOULD BE CALCULATED IN OR NOT.
UM, IT DOES SAY THAT THEY DON'T COUNT THAT SUPPORT STRUCTURE.
AND THEN THEY HAVE TWO DIFFERENT HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS.
THEY HAVE A HEIGHT GROUND CLEARANCE AND A HEIGHT MAXIMUM.
SO THE HEIGHT GROUND CLEARANCES THE DISTANCE FROM THE GROUND LEVEL TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SIGN STRUCTURE.
UM, AND THAT CAN BE A CERTAIN HEIGHT.
AND THEN THEY HAVE THE OVERALL MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF THE SIGN.
SO WHEN WE LOOK AT THAT, THIS IS A TABLE OUT OF THEIR CODE.
YOU CAN SEE FOR SIGNS ON 35 OR 10 THAT ARE IN THE CITY OF SLO.
UM, IF IT WAS A MONUMENT SIGN, IF IT'S A SINGLE TENANT BUILDING MONUMENT SIGN, THEY CAN HAVE 80 SQUARE FEET OF A MONUMENT SIGN.
[01:05:01]
IF IT'S A COMPLEX WHERE THERE'S MULTI-TENANT BUILDINGS, THEY CAN HAVE 90 SQUARE FEET.AND THEN THAT MONUMENT HEIGHT, 12 FEET, 13 FEET.
SO AGAIN, SIGNIFICANTLY SMALLER THAN SHIRTS.
UM, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT KIND OF ACROSS THE BOARD, THE 78 REQUIREMENTS, AND THEN ALL THE OTHER STREETS AS WELL.
THEY HAVE, UM, LIKE GEORGETOWN HAD A SIGN, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A MASTER PLAN.
THEY HAVE WHAT THEY CALL A SIGN PROGRAM.
AND IT'S, AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S TYPICALLY NEEDED WHEN A LARGE SCALE DEVELOPMENT SUCH AS A COMMERCIAL SUBDIVISION WITH MULTIPLE RETAILERS IS BUILT AND REQUIRES MULTIPLE SIGNS FOR THE BUILDINGS OR BUSINESSES WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT.
A SIGN PROGRAM IS NECESSARY TO ADEQUATELY IDENTIFY THE DEVELOPMENT IN A FORM.
SO IT'S TO PROVIDE A GOOD VISUAL ENVIRONMENT.
SO IF WE WERE GONNA TRY TO APPLY SOMETHING LIKE THIS HERE, WRITE SHIRT STATION, THEY WOULD NEED A SIGN PROGRAM IF WE HAD A A, SOMETHING LIKE THIS IN OUR CODE.
THE THING THAT I WANNA HIGHLIGHT IS THAT IN SLOS CODE, IT SAYS, SIGNS PROPOSED UNDER THE COMPREHENSIVE SIGN PROGRAM SHALL BE NO LARGER THAN A MAXIMUM OF 50% OF THE STANDARDS OF THE SIGN REGULATIONS, UNLESS THE APPLICANT CAN DEMONSTRATE A SITE SPECIFIC CONSIDERATION.
SO YOU HAVE THE SIGN PROGRAM, BUT YOU'RE ACTUALLY FURTHER RESTRICTED ON HOW MANY SIGNS YOU CAN HAVE UNLESS THE APPLICANT CAN JUSTIFY GOING ABOVE 50% OF WHAT WOULD BE ALLOWABLE.
AND THEN IN CILO, IF YOU WANNA APPEAL OR GET, UM, ANY DEVIATIONS TO THEIR SIGN CODE, IT'S A VARIANCE.
IT'S HEARD BY THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FOR A RECOMMENDATION, AND THEN IT GOES TO CITY COUNCIL.
OKAY, MCKINNEY, WE'RE ALMOST THERE.
THERE'S MCKINNEY IN NEW BRAUNFELS.
UM, MCKINNEY, THE SIGN EFFECTIVE AREA, IT'S THE AREA ENCLOSED BY DRAWING ONE OR MORE RECTANGLES.
SO SIMILAR TO US, WE'RE DRAWING THOSE IMAGINARY RECTANGLES THAT FULLY CONTAIN ALL EXTREMITIES OF THE SIGN DRAWN TO SALE, EXCLUSIVE OF ITS SUPPORTS.
AND THEN IN MCKINNEY THEY HAVE WHAT THEY CALL DETACHED SIGNS.
UM, AND A REALLY HELPFUL KIND OF DIAGRAM.
I, I DO LIKE THIS, IT MAKES IT REALLY EASY TO SEE WHAT'S PERMITTED.
SO IN MCKINNEY, IF YOU'RE ON THE FREEWAY, YOU CAN HAVE 150 SQUARE FOOT SIGN, 35 FEET IN HEIGHT.
AGAIN, JUST CALLING BACK TO OURS.
AND THEN YOU CAN SEE AS THE ROADWAY RIGHT OF WAY WHIP GETS SMALLER, THE SIGN GETS SMALLER.
UH, THEIR VARIANCES, UM, ARE HEARD BY, UM, THEY HAVE A SIGN BOARD SPECIFIC BOARD THAT HEARS VARIANCES TO THEIR CODE.
AND THEN IF IT'S CONTENT BASED, IT GOES TO CITY COUNCIL.
NEW BRAUNFELS, UH, THEIR REGULATIONS ARE BASED ON ZONING DESIGNATIONS AND ROADWAY CLASSIFICATION SIMILAR TO GEORGETOWN.
SO AGAIN, IT MAKES IT A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED.
YOU GOTTA KIND OF PIECE TOGETHER WHICH ONES APPLY.
UM, PROPERTIES ALONG 35 HAVE A POLE SIGN MAXIMUM OF 400 SQUARE FEET.
SO LARGER ALMOST, YOU KNOW, TWICE AS LARGE AS WE WOULD ALLOW.
BUT A MAX HEIGHT OF 40, SO A LITTLE SHORTER.
AND THEN, UM, IN COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS, MONUMENT SIGNS 48 SQUARE FEET IN HEIGHT, MAX HEIGHT OF 10 FEET, SO SHORTER MONUMENT SIGNS.
AND THEN WHEN THEY'RE LOOKING AT AREA IN NEW BRAUNFELS, IT'S THE AREA OF A SIGN SHALL BE COMPUTED AS THE ENTIRE ADVERTISING AREA OF THE SIGN, INCLUDING ANY FRAMING OR TRIM CONTAINED WITH IN, WITH THE RESPECTIVE SIGN CABINET.
AND THEN THEIR VARIANCES ARE HEARD BY THE BOARD ADJUSTMENT WITH THAT PUBLIC HEARING AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT.
UH, WELL IT IS A PUBLIC HEARING, SO WE'LL GO AHEAD AND OPEN IT UP.
IT IS 7 0 9, GOING ONCE TWICE.
PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED AT 7 0 9.
UM, I'LL LET COMMISSIONER OUTLAW START, UM, SINCE YOU REQUESTED IT.
CAN YOU GO BACK TO, UM, YOUR, THE, WHERE YOU HAD THE THREE DIFFERENT KIND, WHERE YOU HAD THE, THE OKAY.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE'S SEEN THE, THE POLE SIGN THAT'S UP NOW IN THE NEW RETAIL CENTER ON 3 0 9.
UM, I'M SURE IT MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS, BUT UGLY.
WHEREAS, UM, IF YOU REMEMBER, I THINK THE REASON WE, WE APPROVED THE VARIANCE FOR SHIRT STATION WAS, UM, BECAUSE THE ACTUAL ADVERTISING PART OF THE SIGN WAS LESS THAN 250 SQUARE FEET.
[01:10:01]
BETWEEN SIGN ONE AND SIGN TWO IS THAT WE ARE, WE PENALIZE DEVELOPERS AND BUILDERS FOR GIVING US NICE LOOKING SIGNS.UM, AND, AND SO ONE OF MY INPUTS TO EMILY WAS, WELL, MAYBE WE LOOK AT WHEN, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOW WE CALCULATE SIGN AREA, MAYBE WE DON'T INCLUDE LIKE ON SIGN ONE HERE, WE WOULD NOT INCLUDE THAT, UM, BASIN AREA.
EVEN IF IT'S JUST A VENEER, MAYBE WE WOULDN'T INCLUDE THAT.
WE JUST SHOOT AN X-RAY THROUGH IT AND SAY, OH, THAT'S A POLE SIGN.
AND, AND ONLY COUNT THE TOP PART.
UM, BECAUSE I, I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT US TO GET TOO COMPLEX WITH, WITH THE SIGN ORDINANCE.
UM, BUT I, ONE OF MY MAJOR THOUGHTS WAS MAYBE WE, WE DON'T CALCULATE, UM, THE, WELL, IN SOME CASES, LIKE, UM, BOTH SIGNS ONE AND TWO HERE, THE, THE FRAME IS CONS IS INCONSTANT, UM, IT'S INCONSEQUENTIAL.
IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S, IT'S JUST, IT'S LIKE A PICTURE FRAME.
WHEREAS YOU LOOK AT THE ONE THAT WE APPROVED THE WAIVER FOR SEARCH STATION, THEY HAD A FAIRLY WIDE FRAME DOWN THE LEFT SIDE THAT SAID, OR WAS IT SHIRTS ACROSS THE TOP AND STATION? I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT, SO THEY HAD A A, A FAIRLY WIDE FRAME.
SO THIS IS THE, THAT'S PROBABLY THE FIRST ONE THAT CAME IN.
HUH? THIS IS THE SHIRT STATION SIGN THAT IS ACTIVELY UP ON 35 RIGHT NOW.
SO THIS RIGHT HERE SAYS SHIRT STATION.
AND, AND SO YOU CAN SEE, UM, THEIR FRAME TAKES UP A LOT MORE OF THEIR AVAILABLE 250 SQUARE FEET THAN EITHER THE OTHER TWO.
SO, UM, ONE OF MY THOUGHTS WAS THAT WE, WE DON'T COUNT THE FRAME, WE DON'T COUNT, UH, WE DON'T COUNT THE POLE.
SO WHY SHOULD WE COUNT IF THEY DECIDE TO PUT IT ON A NICE MASONRY, UM, BASE, WHY SHOULD WE COUNT THAT BASE AS PART OF THEIR 250 SQUARE FEET? UM, THAT WAS THOUGHT ONE.
AND, AND, AND THE OTHER THING I, I THOUGHT WAS A, AGAIN, UH, AND, AND I'LL USE THE, THE NEW RETAIL CENTER UP HERE, UH, ON 3 0 0 9 THERE BY, UH, FOREST RIDGE, UM, EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING IN THAT FACILITY FACES 3 0 0 9.
SO EVERY ONE OF THOSE TENANTS IS GONNA HAVE THEIR OWN SIGN ON THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING VISIBLE FROM 3 0 0 9.
AND YET THEY STILL PUT UP THIS HUMONGOUS, I ASSUME IT'S ONLY 35 THAT IT MET, THAT IT MET ALL YOUR REQUIREMENTS.
UM, BUT THEN YOU LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE, UM, SHIRT STATION WHERE YOU HAVE INTERIOR BUILDINGS.
UM, YEAH, THEY, THEY GET TO PUT SIGNS ON THEIR BUILDINGS, BUT WHO, WHO SEES 'EM, YOU KNOW, UNTIL YOU TAKE THE INTERIOR DRIVEWAYS.
UM, SO, UM, AT, AT FIRST I THOUGHT OF MAYBE COMING UP WITH A, UM, A DIFFERENT CATEGORY FOR THOSE, UM, DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE INTERIOR BUILDINGS.
UM, NUMBER ONE THAT COMPLICATES THINGS.
AND NUMBER TWO, I'M NOT SURE WE REALLY NEED TO GO THERE.
IF WE CAN GIVE THEM ADEQUATE, UM, SIGNAGE UP FRONT WHERE, WHERE PEOPLE WILL SEE IT AND SAY, WELL, GEE, I KNOW THERE'S A, A, YOU KNOW, TRIPLE B BARBECUE IN HERE SOMEWHERE.
YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE I SEE IT ON THE SIGN.
UM, SO I I, I THINK AT THIS POINT, I, I WOULD, I WOULD MAYBE LIKE US TO CONSIDER HOW WE CALCULATE THAT SIGN AREA AND, AND POTENTIALLY, UH, NOT INCLUDE THE FRAME AND NOT INCLUDE THE SUPPORTS, WHETHER IT'S A POLE.
BECAUSE IN MY MIND, IF YOU'RE GONNA, IF YOU'RE GONNA INCLUDE THIS MASONRY ONE, THEN BY GOLLY, YOU SHOULD INCLUDE THE POLE.
EVEN THOUGH IT'S GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, IT JUST, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE A DOUBLE STANDARD THERE.
UM, AND, AND THAT WAY, UH, MAYBE WE ENCOURAGE BUILDERS
[01:15:01]
TO GIVE US A NICER LOOKING SIGN.NOW, I WILL TELL YOU, UH, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SIGNS FOR A LONG TIME.
UH, YOU KNOW, I, I'VE, I'VE, I'VE BEEN ON PNZ FOR A WHILE AND WE'VE TALKED SIGNS A LOT.
AND WHEN, UH, EVEN BACK AS FAR, AND I WASN'T ON PNZ, BUT I DON'T THINK, BUT BACK WHEN WALMART WAS BUILT AND THEY PUT UP THAT HUMONGOUS, UM, POLE SIGN, BUT YET WHEN I DRIVE SOME OF THE OTHER AREAS, FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU, IF YOU GO INTO HOUSTON AND GET OFF THE INTERSTATE, UH, TAKE STATE HIGHWAY SIX AND GO DOWN SOUTH INTO SOME OF THE COMMUNITY SUBURB COMMUNITIES, AND YOU WILL NEVER SEE A SIGN LIKE ANY OF THESE, OKAY.
ALL YOU'LL SEE ARE LITTLE FOUR OR FIVE FOOT, MAYBE SIX FOOT MONUMENT SIGNS, AND THAT'S IT.
AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO'S THERE.
YOU'LL SEE HOME DEPOT, WALMART, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, WHATABURGER, ALL OF THE BIG NAMES, NO, THEY'RE CON THEY'RE CONSTRAINED TO THESE LITTLE, UH, AND I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHERE SLO IT SEEMS TO ME WHEN, WHEN YOU WENT THROUGH IT THAT MAYBE WHAT THAT'S WHAT CIVIL OAK WAS AIMING FOR.
UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK FOR US THAT SHIP HAS SAILED.
OKAY, WELL I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING DOWN MY THROAT TONIGHT.
SO ANYWAY, RIGHT NOW THAT WOULD BE MY IDEA IS THAT WE, WE LIMIT IF WE DECIDE WE WANT TO PROPOSE AN AMENDMENT, THAT WE JUST LIMIT THAT TO HOW WE CALCULATE THE SIGN AREA.
BECAUSE IF YOU REMEMBER, SHIRT STATION WAS MORE THAN, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT THEY CAME BACK TO US WITH, UH, IT STILL EXCEEDED IF YOU, IF YOU MEASURE IT THE OLD WAY, IT WAS STILL MORE THAN TWO 50.
BUT IF YOU TOOK OUT THE FRAME AND THE SUPPORT BASE, IT WAS UNDER TWO 50 AND THEY WERE HAPPY WITH THAT.
AND I THINK THAT'S BE BECAUSE OF THE PHYSICAL APPEARANCE OF THAT SIGN.
I THINK THAT'S WHY WE GRANTED THEM THE WAIVER.
AND, UM, SO YEAH, THO THAT, THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS.
I I I, I'VE GIVEN UP ON THE IDEA.
I THINK UNLESS SOMEBODY ELSE THINKS IT'S A GOOD IDEA, UH, GIVEN UP ON THE IDEA OF HAVING, UM, SMALL ONES VERSUS BIG ONE, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPMENTS, UH, I THINK WE CAN.
SO WE'VE, WE'VE, IF NECESSARY, WE CAN COME BACK TO THAT IN THE FUTURE.
AND WE'VE TALKED, UM, INTERNALLY AS PLANNING THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN SOMEONE'S COMING IN TO DO ONE OF THESE LARGER RETAIL DEVELOPMENTS AND THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, SHORT STATION, THEY'RE GONNA COME AND DO A PDD, WE MENTION, HEY, DO YOU WANNA LOOK AT THE SIGN ORDINANCE? I THINK WE NEED TO DO A STRONGER, YOU SHOULD LOOK AT THE SIGN ORDINANCE, MAKE SURE THAT IT'S GONNA MEET.
YOU HAVE, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE INTERIOR LOTS.
DO YOU WANNA LOOK AT CHANGING THE OFF-PREMISE SIGN? UM, YOU KNOW, US ADVOCATING A LITTLE MORE FOR, YOU MIGHT WANNA ASK FOR THIS STUFF NOW, RATHER THAN HAVING TO GO THROUGH ALL THESE WAIVER PROCESSES, UM, YOU KNOW, IN THE FUTURE AT LEAST TO TRY TO MAKE AN EFFORT ON SOME OF THE, YOU KNOW, LARGER DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE INTERIOR.
UM, THE QUESTION I WOULD ASK BACK TO COMMISSIONER OUTLAW IN TERMS OF NOT COUNTING ANY KIND OF THE, YOU KNOW, VENEER, IF WE DON'T COUNT THIS AT ALL, THERE WOULD BE NOTHING STOPPING THIS SIGN FROM COMING IN AND LITERALLY BUILDING A 21 FOOT WIDE VENEER ALL THE WAY FROM THE TOP TO THE BOTTOM.
AND ARE, ARE WE OKAY WITH THAT? 'CAUSE THERE, WE, WE WOULD HAVE NO LIMITATIONS.
IT WOULDN'T COUNT TOWARDS THEIR AREA.
WE'D HAVE NO WAY TO STOP THEM.
SO WE COULD HAVE THIS LIKE GIANT VENEER WALL AND THEN 250 SQUARE FEET OF SIGN ON TOP OF THAT MM-HMM
SO I WILL SAY THIS, THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE, I WAS TRYING, I WAS TRYING TO TAKE THE LOGOS OFF SO WE COULD JUST TALK, YOU KNOW, THE SIGN.
SO THE, THE SIGN IN THE MIDDLE, IF YOU'VE DRIVEN DOWN 3 0 0 9, THAT IS THE NEW SPEC SIGN.
AND I THINK WHEN YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN 3 0 0 9, IT'S ALMOST LIKE, WOW, THAT'S A REALLY BIG SIGN.
I EVEN DID IT WHEN THEY PUT IT UP AND I WENT AND CHECKED AND CHECKED THE PERMIT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS THE RIGHT SIZE.
AND IT DOES, IT MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS.
BUT IF WE START THINKING ABOUT IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO, I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYBODY WOULD WANNA GO TO THAT EXTREME.
BUT IF THEY DID, WOULD WE, WOULD WE BE OKAY WITH THIS LIKE GIANT VEER FAKE BRICK WALL? I THINK TO COMMISSIONER OUTLAW'S POINT, I THINK IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER IN TERMS OF, WE'LL REMOVE IT WITH THE, LIKE, WE'LL REMOVE IT FROM YOUR SQUARE FEET MAX, BUT
[01:20:01]
WITH THE IMPLICATIONS OF MAYBE THERE'S HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS, MAYBE THERE'S THINGS THAT ARE TIED TO IT IN TERMS OF, WE'LL GIVE YOU THIS, IF YOU GIVE ME THAT, UM, LIKE THIS, LIKE THE EXAMPLE OF THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A 10 FOOT BASE.SO MAYBE SETTING A MAX HEIGHT OF WE'LL GIVE YOU THAT SPACE BACK IF YOU, YOU KNOW, BUILD IT WITHIN THIS TYPE OF LIMIT.
UM, BUT THEN I, THIS MIGHT ALSO BE AN APPROPRIATE TIME TO GO BACK AND REVISIT THE, THE SIZES IN GENERAL ON LIKE, I AGREE WITH THE SPECS THING.
UM, I THINK I EVEN REMEMBER MAKING THE ARGUMENT WHEN WE INITIALLY HAD IT, 'CAUSE I THINK THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL WAS LIKE, FAR INTO MARKET AND INTERSTATE WERE GONNA BE CONSIDERED THE SAME THING.
AND SO WHAT, HEY, MAYBE WE DON'T WANT SIGNS THAT BIG.
AND SO COMING BACK AND MAYBE SAYING, HEY, WE DEFINITELY DON'T WANT SIGNS THAT BIG NOW THAT WE CAN VISUALLY SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE ON 3 0 0 9.
DO WE WANT THAT? AND IT'S HARD, I THINK IN THESE SITUATIONS WHERE YOU HAVE LIKE A LOT OF TENANTS AND YOU'RE TRYING TO LIKE, 'CAUSE THE ONE ON THE FAR, LIKE THE MULTI-TENANT SIGN LOOKS DIFFERENT.
I MEAN IT'S, I DON'T WANNA SAY THEY'RE BASICALLY COMPARABLE.
IT'S THE SAME AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE, BUT IT'S THAT THIS LOOKS A LOT MORE MM-HMM
UM, NOT, APPETIZING ISN'T THE RIGHT WORD, BUT APPEALING MM-HMM
AND SO I I, I LIKE WHAT HE'S SAYING.
I DON'T WANT US TO GET TOO COMPLICATED, BUT I THINK THERE WE NEED TO FIND SOME WAYS TO INCENTIVIZE GOOD DESIGN OVER JUST, HERE'S YOUR HYPE MAX, HERE'S YOUR SEISM MAX.
AND MAYBE SAYING YOUR INITIAL, MAYBE THE INITIALS CAN BE SMALLER OF YOUR MA YOUR CURRENT, LIKE ON FARM TO MARKET, YOUR MAX SITE IS SET AT LIKE 20 FEET AND ONE 50.
BUT IF YOU GIVE ME A MASONRY BASE, YOU GET AN ADDITIONAL AMOUNT OF SIGNAGE.
IF YOU HAVE MULTI-TENANTS AND YOU DO THIS, YOU KNOW, YOU GET MORE SIGNAGE.
UM, SO I DON'T, I DUNNO IF IT'S NECESSARILY TOO COMPLICATED, BUT I WILL SAY, RIGHT, I THINK OUR, OUR OLD CODE, WE HAD THE FREESTANDING KIND OF POLL SIGNS.
WE HAD MONUMENT SIGNS AND WE HAD DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS FOR MULTI-TENANT SIGNS.
UM, I'M NOT SAYING WE NECESSARILY HAVE TO GO BACK TO HAVING ALL THREE AGAIN, BUT MAYBE COMBINING ALL OF INTO ONE WAS TOO FAR.
MAYBE WE NEED TO HAVE FREE STANDING GROUND SIGNS, WHETHER THAT'S A POLE SIGN OR A MONEY SIGN.
AND THEN WE NEED TO HAVE A MULTI-TENANT SIGN.
THAT IF YOU'RE ADVERTISING MULTIPLE BUSINESSES, YOU GET A LITTLE MORE SQUARE FOOTAGE.
BUT IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE SPECS, YOU'RE A LITTLE SMALLER 'CAUSE YOU'RE ONLY ADVERTISING YOUR ONE BUSINESS.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.
I KNOW COMMISSIONER LORE, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING? OH, OKAY.
WELL, UM, I JUST WANT TO ADDRESS THE COMMENTS YOU MADE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, NOW WHAT WOULD KEEP THEM FROM BUILDING, UH, THESE TALL MASONRY STRUCTURES.
AND I'VE SEEN THOSE SOMEWHERE WHERE, UH, RATHER THAN A POLE RUNNING UP THE MIDDLE, THEY, THEY BUILD THESE, THESE TWO MASONRY STRUCTURES AND THEN THEY, THEY PUT THEIR ADVERTISING SIGN, UH, BETWEEN THAT.
AND AGAIN, IF THE SIGNAGE IN BETWEEN, UH, MEETS THE MAXIMUM SIGNAGE, THEN WOULDN'T THAT, YOU KNOW, WHY WOULD WE BE AGAINST THAT? IT WOULDN'T THAT BE A, WHAT I CALL A NICE LOOKING SIGN TO HAVE A COUPLE OF MASONRY PILLARS AND THEN THE, THEN, THEN THE 250 SQUARE FEET BETWEEN THEM.
AND I WOULD SAY IF THOSE MASONRY PILLARS WERE LEGITIMATELY HOLDING THE SIGN UP, WE WOULDN'T COUNT IT AGAINST THEM.
IT'S JUST WHEN IT'S YOU, YOU HAVE A POLE IN THERE AND IT'S JUST, YOU BUILT A BOX AROUND IT.
BUT IF, IF THE WAY THAT THE CODE IS CURRENTLY RIGHT.
IF IT'S TRULY THE SUPPORT STRUCTURE, IT WOULD NOT COUNT AGAINST THEM.
BUT, BUT AGAIN, UH, MY HOUSE WAS BUILT, UH, WELL IT WAS BUILT BACK IN, UH, 89 AND I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CURRENT, UH, SHIRTS ARCHITECTURAL STANDARDS WERE BACK THEN, BUT, UM, IT'S, UM, IT'S A BRICK VENEER ON THREE SIDES TO MAKE THE HOUSE LOOK NICER.
THAT BRICK VENEER DOESN'T HOLD UP ANYTHING.
ALL IT DOES IS MAKE IT LOOK NICER.
SO AGAIN, I'M NOT SURE WHY WE CARE IF THE GUY AT THIS SIGN, IF SPECS WANTED TO TAKE THAT UGLY POLE AND, AND WRAP IT IN SOMETHING, UH, VISUALLY PLEASING, WHY SHOULD WE CARE THAT THE POLE IS HOLDING THE SIGN AND NOT THE NICE LOOKING FACADE? SAME.
SO IF, WOULD IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF THEY HAD THEIR ADDRESS, SO SAY THAT THEY HAD THEIR ADDRESS HERE,
[01:25:01]
OR IF IT SAID, UM, THE NAME OF THE SUBDIVISION, NOT NECESSARILY MAYBE THE BUSINESS, BUT THE NAME OF THE SUBDIVISION, WOULD THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE? WELL, YEAH.SEE, THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I ARGUED FOR SEARCH STATION WAS THE FACT THAT, UM, UH, LOOKING AT SIGN THREE THERE, THAT, UM, WIDE BORDER THAT WE'RE, THAT WE'RE COUNTING AGAINST THEIR SQUARE FOOTAGE, UH, PROVIDED, UH, IDENTITY.
UM, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE YOU SHOULD ASK THE FIRE DEPARTMENT KNOW, LIKE ON SIGN NUMBER ONE, WOULD THEY LIKE TO SEE NICE BIG ADDRESS NUMBERS ON THAT SIGN? I AND ADDRESS NUMBERS MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN THE BEST EXAMPLE, BUT IF IT WAS THE SHIRT STATION LOGO, IT DIDN'T SAY SHIRT STATION, IT WAS THE LEAVES.
IT'S ADVERTISING THEIR DEVELOPMENT.
ULTIMATELY IT'S ADVERTISING FOR, FOR THEM.
AND I THINK I ARGUED ONE, ONE OF, ONE OF THE REASONS I ARGUED IN FAVOR OF THE WAIVER FOR SHIRT STATION WAS IDENTITY.
UM, SO I DON'T KNOW, EVEN IF YOU WANT TO TAKE SIGN NUMBER ONE AND YOU EXCLUDE THE, THE, UH, MASONRY VENEER SUPPORT STRUCTURE, UM, BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE, UM, UH, LET, LET'S JUST, LET'S JUST SAY 'CAUSE SHIRT STATION KEEPS POPPING IN MY MIND, SO THEY WANNA PUT THIS SIGN UP, BUT ON THE MASONRY THEY WANNA PUT SHIRT STATION.
IS THAT REALLY, YOU KNOW, IN MY MIND THAT, THAT THAT'S MORE OF AN IDENTITY IN A LOCATION THAN IT IS ADVERTISING.
UN UNLIKE THE ABOVE WHERE IT'S GONNA SAY HOME DEPOT AND PANERA BREAD AND WHATEVER ELSE YOU'RE GONNA PUT ON IT.
UM, I, I, I, I, IF, IF YOU KIND OF SEE WHERE I'M GOING, IT, IT'S MORE OF AN IDENTITY THAN IT IS IN ADVERTISING.
SO LIKE PLACEMAKING VERSUS, YEAH.
SO DO, SO DO WE, DO WE ONLY VIEW THAT AS THE DEVELOPMENT NAME, THE SUBDIVISION NAME? RIGHT.
BECAUSE I COULD SEE SOMEONE ARGUING, WELL, I'M PLACEMAKING THAT THIS IS WHATEVER RESTAURANT.
I, I WOULD ARGUE IT'S LIKE THE CITY, LIKE YOU COULD PUT THE CITY LOGO SOMETHING NO, NO.
YOU'RE, YOU COULDN'T PUT SHIRTS IN GENERAL.
YOU COULD, YOU COULD PUT SHIRTS, BUT YOU COULDN'T USE LIKE THE, THE OFFICIAL LOGO, THE OFFICIAL SEAL OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
SO I, I WOULD, YEAH, LIKE WHAT HE'S SAYING, I WOULD TIE IT TO THE DEVELOPMENT NAME, THE SUBDIVISION NAME, NOTHING THAT DIRECTLY ADVERTISES A TENANT.
A TENANT OR LIKE A BUSINESS OR SOMETHING.
LIKE, SOMETHING MORE ON AS A WHOLE, UH, COMMISSIONER HECTOR.
SO, UH, I JUST WANTED TO STATE THAT I THINK THAT THIS SPEAKS TO KIND OF THE CORE TENANT AROUND THE DISCUSSIONS REGARDING THE SIGNS, BUT I ALSO THINK IT, IT PROVIDES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK FORWARD TO DETERMINE WHAT WE WANT THE COMMUNITY TO LOOK LIKE.
RIGHT? SO I WOULD, I WOULD JUST TELL YOU THE POLL SIGN ANYWHERE, BUT ALONG THE INTERSTATE, I JUST WOULDN'T EVEN ALLOW IT, PERIOD.
THAT WAY WE DRIVE WHAT THE COMMUNITY LOOKS LIKE, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY KNOWING THAT, I MEAN, DO WE REALLY NEED A POLL SIGN ON FM 3 0 0 9? I, I WOULD SAY NO, BUT IT DOES GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY TO DRIVE WHAT THE SIGNAGE LOOKS LIKE, LIKE INTERIOR TO THE COMMUNITY.
SO, UH, THAT, THAT WAS MY THOUGHT.
BUT I DO THINK THAT THAT, YEAH, THAT POLE SIGN IS, IS HIDEOUS.
SO WOULD YOU ENVISION THAT MORE AS, SO THIS IS THE FREESTANDING SIGN SECTION, UM, A REQUIREMENT FOR THE FARM TO MARKET ROADS AND THE ALL OTHERS THAT THEY HAVE TO BE OF A MONUMENT STYLE? RIGHT.
I, I MEAN, I'VE BEEN IN CITIES WHERE THERE WAS INTENTIONALITY BUILT INTO WHAT THEY ALLOWED, AND IT DEFINITELY MADE A DIFFERENCE IN, YOU KNOW, THE AESTHETICS OF THE CITY.
I MEAN, EVEN IF YOU GO IN NEIGHBORHOODS AND YOU SEE SOME PEOPLE ARE DELIBERATE ABOUT THE TYPES OF STREET SIGNS THAT THEY HAVE.
I'VE BEEN IN SOME NICE ONES AND IT JUST MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER ABOUT LOOKING AT SIGNS.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, DRIVING HOME EVERY DAY, YOU'RE LIKE, OH, WHAT'S
[01:30:01]
A NICE SIGN? YOU KNOW, IT, WE HAD TO, YOU KNOW, WAIT A COUPLE YEARS AND SPEND A LITTLE EXTRA MONEY.BUT I ENJOY DRIVING INTO THE COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, SO, UH, AND I SEE THE SIGNAGE WITHIN THE CITY THE SAME WAY.
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, TO BE INTENTIONAL ABOUT WHAT WE WANT SHIRTS TO LOOK LIKE.
UH, I WAS GONNA GO ALONG THE SAME WAY, UM, WITH MAKING THE MONUMENT SIGNS MANDATORY ON FMS AND SHIRTS PARKWAY.
WE CAN ALSO LOOK AT SOME OF DOING THAT EVEN ON THE HIGHWAY.
UM, KIND OF INCENTIVIZE THAT, WHERE INSTEAD OF HAVING THE HUGE WALMART SIGN THAT'S UGLY, WE CAN MAKE IT WHERE PEOPLE COME IN.
IT'S A NICE THING IF YOU GO TO LIKE DRIPPING SPRINGS AND PLACES LIKE THAT, THEY ARE VERY, VERY INTENTIONAL ON THEIR SIGNAGE AND IT'S CONSISTENT.
SO BASICALLY YOU HAVE A BUILDING, THIS IS THE CONSISTENCY NO MATTER WHERE IT IS.
AND IF WE HAVE THAT WITH THE MONUMENT SIGNS, I THINK IT'S GONNA REALLY HELP US BECAUSE WE HAVE MONUMENT SIGNS ALREADY FOR THE CITY WHEN YOU COME IN OFF SH PARKWAY.
SO TAKING THAT SAME LOOK AND PUTTING IT ELSEWHERE, I THINK WILL REALLY ENHANCE THE LOOK OF THE CITY AND WILL PROBABLY GENERATE MORE BUSINESS AND PROBABLY HELP OUT THE, THE RESIDENTS TOO, GOING, YEAH, IT LOOKS GOOD, BUT HAVING SPECS, HUGE SIGN.
UM, ALONG THE OTHER SIGN THAT, THAT I, I SAW THE ONE THAT TODAY WHERE I WAS COMING HOME FOR, UM, DOWN 30 0 9.
I WAS LIKE, WHOA, THAT'S KIND OF, I THINK I JOLTED A LITTLE BIT.
I THINK I GOT OUTTA LANE JUST TO SEE IT.
AT LEAST IT'S NOT NEON AND FLASHING.
I JUST LOOKED AT IT GOING, THAT SIGN, I THINK, I SWEAR, IS BIGGER THAN THE, THAN THE FOOTPRINT OF SOME OF THOSE BUILDINGS.
AND SO I THINK IF WE KIND OF WORK ON DOWNSIZING THOSE A LITTLE BIT WITH THE MONUMENT SIGN AND MAKING THEM REQUIREMENTS, I THINK WE'LL GET A BETTER FEEL.
AND I THINK, WE'LL, WE WILL SEE A BETTER IMPACT.
SO JUST SO I CAN KIND OF KEEP US YEAH.
UM, AND I'M HOPING Y'ALL ARE TAKING REAL GOOD NOTES ON THIS.
CAN I GET A HEAD NOD IF WE'RE KIND OF ALL IN THE AGREEMENTS THAT ON FM ROADWAYS AND THE ALL OTHER ROADWAYS, SO THINK BUSINESSES ON MAIN STREET, YOU KNOW, SHIRTS, PARKWAY, BECAUSE SHIRTS, PARKWAY WOULDN'T CLASSIFY AS THAT FARM TO MARKET.
SO FARM TO MARKET, AND THEN THEY ALL OTHERS.
WE DON'T WANT POLE SIGNS AND WE WANT MONUMENT STYLE SIGNS.
CAN I GET A HEAD NUN? OH, IS THERE A SIGNIFICANT COST DIFFERENCE? IS IT GOING TO IMPACT SOMEBODY WHO'S JUST STARTING THEIR BUSINESS AND THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE THIS ADDITIONAL COST? YES.
AND WE'RE, WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT.
I THINK FOR THE GREATER GOOD OF THE COMMUNITY.
SO HEAD NON CHECK, HEAD NON CHECK.
I'M NOT, WE'VE GOT SOME SHOULDER, I'LL SEE WHAT YOU COME BACK WITH.
SO THEN LET'S TALK INTERSTATE.
SO 35, 10, I'M GOING TO ASK MULTIPLE TIMES POLE SIGNS.
NO, WE WANT MONUMENT SIGNS EVERYWHERE.
IS THAT, SO WHAT IF WE, WHAT IF WE DID KIND OF A, IF YOU HAVE A MONUMENT SIGN, YOU GET A LITTLE MORE SQUARE FOOTAGE.
BUT YOU CAN STILL HAVE A POLE SIGN, BUT IT'S A LITTLE SMALLER.
TRY TO LIKE CUT THE DIFFERENCE THAT IF YOU'RE ON 35 TO 10, I AGREE WITH THAT.
'CAUSE IT'S INCENTIVIZING THE THINGS THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.
AND ESPECIALLY WITH WHAT COMMISSIONER OUTWELL HAS SAID IN TERMS OF NOT MAYBE NOT MEASURING CERTAIN THINGS AND YOU'RE GETTING THAT SPACE BACK IN OTHER WAYS.
AND THEN HAVING, EXCUSE ME, LOWER MINIMUMS IN TERMS OF LIKE, IF YOU'RE JUST DOING A POLE SIGN, YOU HAVE A SMALLER SQUARE FOOTAGE.
WELL, IT'S NOT ENTIRELY RELEVANT TO THE DISCUSSION, BUT I'D LIKE TO SHARE A LITTLE STORY WITH YOU THAT, UM, I WAS ON MY WAY OVER TO, UH, LEON SPRINGS TODAY, AND OF COURSE I TAKE 1604 AND, UM, THAT NEW RAMP FROM 1604 TO I 10 LOOKS LIKE IT'S ABOUT 20 MILES LONG.
BUT WHAT I NOTICED IS, AS WE, AS WE STARTED UP THAT RAMP, IS YOU LOOK OVER TO THE SIDE AND HERE'S ALL THESE BIG, UH, MONUMENT SIGNS.
SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE MAYBE SIGN NUMBER THREE.
AND ONLY THING YOU CAN SEE NOW ARE MAYBE THE TOP TWO, TOP TWO PANELS.
AND, UH, IT'S JUST, AND, AND, AND, AND SO NOW THIS FLYOVER OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.
AND, AND MAYBE FROM 1604 YOU MIGHT SEE, BE ABLE TO SEE THE BOTTOM THREE.
UM, SO AGAIN, NOT REALLY RELEVANT TO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT I JUST, I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS KIND OF A, A, A FUNNY ANECDOTE THAT MM-HMM
YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY PUT A LOT OF MONEY INTO THOSE SIGNS AND THEY'RE DOING THEM NO GOOD RIGHT NOW.
[01:35:01]
YOU SHOULD BE TRYING TO LOOK AT A SIGN GOING AROUND THAT RAMP ANYWAY, BUT, UH,BUT I DO, YOU KNOW, THINK THAT WHATEVER WE DO WITHIN THIS COMMUNITY SHOULD BE DONE WITH INTENTION.
YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION ALWAYS COMES UP, YOU KNOW, EVEN WHEN DEVELOPERS COME IN AND THEY WANT TO BUILD SOMETHING SOMEWHERE, IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE WANT THE COMMUNITY TO BE LIKE? RIGHT? SO, UH, STARTING WITH SIGNAGE IS A PERFECT PLACE TO START.
AND IF YOU WANT TO DO BUSINESS, THIS IS THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS THAT, SO, SO IT'LL LAND THE PLANE.
DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE ENOUGH TO START? SO I'M GONNA ASK FOR ONE MORE HEAD NOD JUST SO I MAKE SURE THAT I'M ON THE SAME PAGE.
OUR GOAL IS TO INCENTIVIZE EVEN ON 35 AND 10, THE MORE MONUMENT STYLE SIGN.
SO MAYBE LETTING THEM GO, MAYBE IF IT'S, IT'S KEEPING THE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY, BUT I'M NOT COUNTING THE MASONRY VENEER BASE, WHATEVER IT IS AGAINST THEM.
AND THEN IF YOU'RE JUST GIVING US A POLE SIGN, SHORTER, SMALLER.
AND THEN MONUMENT ON FM AND ALL OTHER NO POLLS.
AND WE'LL START, WE'LL START THERE.
ANY COMMENTS, ANYBODY WHILE WE'RE DOING THIS, RIGHT? 'CAUSE WE'RE GONNA BE TOUCHING 11, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE IN THERE? DO WE WANNA LOOK AT, UH, LOOK AT FARM TO MARKET, ROAD SIZE AND, UH, HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS AND MAYBE MAKE IT MORE ALIGNED WITH ALL OTHERS? OKAY, SOUNDS GOOD.
WE CAN LOOK AT THAT BECAUSE REALLY IT'S JUST 3 0 0 9 AND WELL 78, BUT I WOULD ARGUE THERE'S, YEAH, NO, I WOULD, I WOULD INTERSTATES ALL OTHERS.
UM, YOU, I'M SORRY, COMMISSIONER, UH, VELAZQUEZ IN THE SAME NOTE, SINCE WE GONNA THOSE M TIF, I MEAN IN MY PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE WE CALL IT DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR THE COMMUNITY.
THESE VENEERS CAN BE YELLOW, BROWN.
WE ARE GONNA ALSO LOOK AT HAVING A MOTIF ON IT BECAUSE NOW WE'RE GONNA HAVE A SORT AMOUNT OF COLORS ALL OVER THE PLACE.
SO I WOULD SAY WE, WE DON'T EVEN REGULATE BUILDING MATERIALS OR BUILDING COLORS.
SO I THINK TO START REGULATING THAT ON SIGNAGE, UM, WOULD BE A STRETCH.
ANYTHING IN, UM, SO WE'VE FOUND A COUPLE THINGS THAT WE THINK COULD BE A LITTLE MORE CLEAR THAT WE'D WANNA KIND OF ROLL IN THIS TO, NOT SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES, BUT JUST TO MAKE 'EM EASIER TO UNDERSTAND.
AND THEN, UM, MAYBE LOOKING AT THE WAIVER SECTION, UM, ANY THOUGHTS ON CHANGES TO WAIVERS, MAYBE LIMITING WHAT YOU CAN ASK A WAIVER FOR MAYBE BEEFING UP THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL? YES.
I, I THINK YOU NEED TO SHOW HARDSHIP, LIKE WHAT, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THEY'RE DOING AT BOA, BUT IF WE'RE GONNA START, IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE CONVERSATION OF WE WANT THINGS TO BE INTENTIONAL AND WE WANT THINGS TO LOOK A CERTAIN WAY FOR EVERYBODY TO START APPLYING FOR WAIVERS.
UM, AND MAYBE IT IS SOMETHING I, YOU KNOW, I, I KNOW YOU TALKED ABOUT, UM, LIKE THE SIGN PLAN, MAYBE HAVING THAT BE A REQUIREMENT AS PART OF A LARGE SCALE DEVELOPMENT.
'CAUSE IT, I MEAN, I, I THINK THE ONLY WAIVERS WE'VE REALLY GOTTEN ARE TIED TO LARGE SCALE DEVELOPMENTS.
YOU HAVEN'T HAD INDIVIDUALS COME IN, SO WE HAVE, THEY JUST HAVE NOT MADE IT THIS FAR.
WE HAVEN'T MADE IT TO PNZ YET, BUT WE HAVE HAD OTHERS INQUIRE ABOUT DOING, UM, WAIVERS TO HAVE, UM, ADDITIONAL FREESTANDING SIGNS ON THEIR LOT BESIDES JUST THE ONE PER FRONTAGE.
IF YOU DON'T WANNA THINK OF WAYS TO, TO INCREASE THE, UM, CRITERIA, I THINK IT'D BE OPEN TO IT.
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING, BUT DEFINITELY, SO WE'RE NOT SET ON, WE WANNA ADD THESE THINGS, RIGHT.
IT'S JUST IS WOULD THAT CONVERSATION BE AT LEAST WELCOME TO AT LEAST HEAR OUT MAYBE ADDING SOME, SOME MORE MEAT TO THE CRITERIA? YES.
ANY, ARE THERE ANY REQUESTS BY COMMISSIONERS FOR ITEMS ON FUTURE AGENDAS? NO.
UH, ANNOUNCEMENTS? ANYONE? ANYONE? STAFF? NO.
[A. Current Projects and City Council Status Update ]
ALL RIGHT.WELL, UH, THERE'S INFORMATION IN YOUR PACKET ONLINE ABOUT CURRENT CITY STATUS PROJECTS AND IT IS SEVEN 40.